New Documentary on Bill Ackman

[justrading]

The point is that to make money, instead of selling a valuable product to the society you have to find enough people that will end up stuck with it. If there is anything you can compare it with it's the bubble of any kind.

Do you actually trade?

When I closed my EURUSD short below 1.600 for a profit, I wasn't selling a product valuable to society. I added no value. I simply took a speculative position and closed it by buying cheap from someone else.

I don't comfort myself that I add liquidity and that's a benefit. I trade to make money, it always is at the expense of someone else.

When I lose, and it happens more than I like, someone profits at my expense.

That is trading. Let's not moralise about winning or losing.

 

[beefcaketrade]

HLF is a multinational and operates in many countries.

I just wonder how this regulatory short to zero thing works.

Say you get your 1 in a million chance win and the feds close it's operations down. That's just one country. Does the stock go to zero? Probably not. It will go low, but to zero?

And then lets say they delist from NYSE and trade in a foreign exchange instead. Now what? Still not zero. Still not game over. You're not gonna get the entire world to ban a company. You could barely convince your own regulators of your short thesis. So how is this a zero? I don't get it.

 

[Maverick74]

Do you actually trade?

When I closed my EURUSD short below 1.600 for a profit, I wasn't selling a product valuable to society. I added no value. I simply took a speculative position and closed it by buying cheap from someone else.

I don't comfort myself that I add liquidity and that's a benefit. I trade to make money, it always is at the expense of someone else.

When I lose, and it happens more than I like, someone profits at my expense.

That is trading. Let's not moralise about winning or losing.

Well said. The moral superiority that some traders seem to hold is slightly hypocritical. The education some guys have on here could have led them into medicine, cancer research, policy research, etc. Instead they buy and sell financial paper for profit. LOL. Yeah, let's go after herbal life. The real irony here is that some will find justification to trade it, just not get involved in it. As if there's a difference.

 

[SunTrader]

Smart thing would be to short the shares of all companies since one of them ought to go to zero.

Oh golly gee wonder why newwurld didn't "like" you back for that brilliant post.

Let him know I short futures and leave the stocks scraps to you guys.

 

[SunTrader]

Well said. The moral superiority that some traders ...

I'm not making a moral judgement in any way shape or form. I also did say it was going to zero. I said as well as others it is a scam. And the clock is ticking. IMO.

I could be right and I could be wrong. The market will decide. That's it.

 

[Maverick74]

I'm not making a moral judgement in any way shape or form. I also did say it was going to zero. I said as well as others it is a scam. And the clock is ticking. IMO.

I could be right and I could be wrong. The market will decide. That's it.

It's not a scam. I know and understand MLM well. My damn father exposed me to this shit growing up. He was involved in many of them sad to say. At the end of the day, he was a salesman. All the products were real. All the products worked. Most of them were not that original. It was a poor man's supply chain. Buy product from a wholesaler, sell it down your network. True Walmart performs this function perfectly fine today but then we have to talk about how big and bad and evil Walmart is right?

I will admit that the drug business is a little different. Unfortunately supplements are perfect for this model as it promotes residual business. Hence why they have had higher success rates. While I don't like the MLM model (even as a 7 year old I didn't like it), it does help some who are not educated and don't have the same opportunities as some of us here have had. I don't know anyone who has gotten filthy rich in this business but I do know a surprising number of people that earned a modest middle class income.

 

[sle]

Oh golly gee wonder why newwurld didn't "like" you back for that brilliant post.

Actually, I am in your camp regarding HLF being an immoral and barely legal scam. Unfortunately, just like many other schemes preying on the regular folks, it could persist for many years before it bursts. Personally, I'd not bet a billion dollars on it.

 

[SunTrader]

Actually, I am in your camp regarding HLF being an immoral and barely legal scam. Unfortunately, just like many other schemes preying on the regular folks, it could persist for many years before it bursts. Personally, I'd not bet a billion dollars on it.

Well then yes we are in the same camp and agree Ackman is too "smart" to realize he shouldn't of bet a billion on it. And although I said the clock is ticking I agree it might take years, for it to strike twelve. But it will, they always end the same way.

 

[SunTrader]

It's not a scam. I know....

You know because you are in it or you know because ... "you know".

Ok so who makes money - besides those at the very top. Whoever is right below them, and maybe another level or two below them. Next comes .... the suckers. Once they get discouraged. The new suckers. Rinse repeat. Until there are no more suckers left. Oh wait now we move on to Mexico. And Columbia and Brazil ... and ... and ... Until Antarctica is all that is left. House of cards draws a joker.

 

[i960]

One has to wonder what'll come first: HLF going to 0 or Ackman puking on yet another "I just know I'm right" trade? At this point it's almost as if it exists simply to inflict pain on Ackman (which of course I completely support).