Never-Ending Recession:Have Americans lost all hope for the future?

[denner]

Quote from Random.Capital:

Not that most here are old enough to remember, but this is sounding a lot like the late 1970s.

The "solution" chosen by voters then was to buy into Reagan's don't-tax-but-keep-spending deficit plan and declare it "Morning in America".

Except in the late 1970s interest rates had nowhere to go but down. Now, it's just the opposite. We're in the midst of another depression and yet we've exacted just about every stimulus measure known to mankind.

 

[shortie]

Quote from denner:

..We're in the midst of another depression...

how could we be in the midst of a depression when the malls and the highways are packed?

i expect to see at least 1:10 horse_buggy:car when the depression is in for real.

 

[oldtime]

Quote from denner:

Except in the late 1970s interest rates had nowhere to go but down. Now, it's just the opposite. We're in the midst of another depression and yet we've exacted just about every stimulus measure known to mankind.

well, it may feel like a depression but technically (depending on what University's definition you go by) we haven't had three consecutive quarters of negative growth. The only stimulus measure we haven't exacted yet is time.

By the way, there are already some European Banks that are paying negative interest rates. That's right, you have to pay to open an account. So, saying rates have nowhere to go but up is just an unproven opinion. For those of us who lived through 20% rates it seems unlikely, but apparently it is happening.

 

[oldtime]

Quote from shortie:

how could we be in the midst of a depression when the malls and the highways are packed?

i expect to see at least 1:10 horse_buggy:car when the depression is in for real.

shortie, you need to spend some time out in Amish Country. You've never seen such beautiful trotters, not even at Bay Meadows, and such immaculately cared for buggies. And nothing changes even when crude goes above $120. And the funny thing is, the Mcdonalds fast food chain (and I aint lying to you) has a stall out back that they stock with hay each day so their customers can hitch up their horses and feed and water them while they come in and get a cheap meal for the men and the boys (never seen an Amish woman or a girl in a Mcdonalds) and it's amazing how happy and free those young boys look on what the rest of us would call a "school day."

So, if you ever see more horse and buggies parked at the mall it may not be an indication of depression, it could just mean an upwardly mobile Amish population. After all, they never borrow money and pay for everything in cash. May not seem like much when you look at their beautiful horses and buggies, but that also applies to all the land they farm. Typical farm is 120 acres plus, and that is all free and clear. And some of that land is now appraised at over 10k per acre depending on how bad somebody wants to destroy it for developement.

 

[denner]

Quote from oldtime:

well, it may feel like a depression but technically (depending on what University's definition you go by) we haven't had three consecutive quarters of negative growth. The only stimulus measure we haven't exacted yet is time.

By the way, there are already some European Banks that are paying negative interest rates. That's right, you have to pay to open an account. So, saying rates have nowhere to go but up is just an unproven opinion. For those of us who lived through 20% rates it seems unlikely, but apparently it is happening.

Right, the good old GDP deflator can make the numbers whatever they want them to be...I'm not one to let the bureaucrats tell me when we are "growing" or in recession, I'll trust what my eyes and ears tell me...We've staved off the full blown effects of this credit contraction with trillions of dollars to "plug a few holes" and we have an enormous safety net, but it can only last so long...

To your second point, yes these are some of the disastrous consequences of ZIRP. But I would also add that it wasn't too long ago that many of the current troubled Eurozone countries weren't paying out hefty yields either. In an instant, it re-prices towards default. It's become a binary event.

 

[Humpy]

Consider this

If a person gets caught stealing say $100 from the corner shop, they get a jail sentence. Right

So where is there anything that encourages politicians to do a good job. They can at the moment waste the assets of an entire country ( e.g. Bush,Blair etc. )and even then stand a chance of being re-elected.
If the public chuck them out of office the leaders do retire on large pensions and perks( e.g. Blair is now worth about $100m from very little )

It would encourage " would be " politicians if a general court of enquiry is held after they retire, their record is discussed and they are either punished for negligence or rewarded for good results.

 

[oldtime]

Quote from Humpy:

Consider this

If a person gets caught stealing say $100 from the corner shop, they get a jail sentence. Right

So where is there anything that encourages politicians to do a good job. They can at the moment waste the assets of an entire country ( e.g. Bush,Blair etc. )and even then stand a chance of being re-elected.
If the public chuck them out of office the leaders do retire on large pensions and perks( e.g. Blair is now worth about $100m from very little )

It would encourage " would be " politicians if a general court of enquiry is held after they retire, their record is discussed and they are either punished for negligence or rewarded for good results.

that's the funny thing about the English. You're always about twenty years behind us. It was fun for a while when after we had already been through it your women were just discovering the sexual revolution.

Not that we ever come up with anything that is lasting or enduring, but just once, for oldtimes sake, I wish the English would come up with a rehashed idea that is so old it seems new.

I haven't bought a new tie in twenty years, and a few of them are about to come back into fashion.

We have plenty of new ideas but no old ones. There's nothing more pathetic than an Englishman with a new idea.

Have you ever thought about carpeting Buckingham Palace? My brother in law is in the business and can give you a good deal.

There's a lot of pent up racisim here in the United States, and you're the only ones we can unload on.

200 years later and no doubt we have lost our way, but all it takes is one sentence from an Englishman to remind us what we are against and what we stand for.

otherwise, to our detriment, a lot of gardening knowledge was lost during the Revolutionary War.

 

[Humpy]

Quote from oldtime:


Not that we ever come up with anything that is lasting or enduringWe have plenty of new ideas but no old ones.
200 years later and no doubt we have lost our way, but all it takes is one sentence from an Englishman to remind us what we are against and what we stand for.

otherwise, to our detriment, a lot of gardening knowledge was lost during the Revolutionary War.

What a pleasant surprise to hear from an educated American who talks sense ! One can get a bit tired of high-fives, Greenspan's delphic like utterences that have morphed into Benny's burps and all that razza.

Our idiotic politicians listen to the NEW talk and forget the tried and tested. Obviously a country and an individual has to balance up what is best for themselves. The old or even the new isn't all rubbish to be chucked out entirely.
We admit our Govt was wrong in the 1770s to tax you lot so much and caused the inevitable break-up.
You in the USA had the great advantage of starting afresh. Pity you are still stuck with a now very outdated, patched up system.

Set out with high ideals but reality has kicked in. You guys are looking a bit bewildered.
Gotta get used to 2nd best somehow, I suppose. We did.

You can't eat high principles but one can certainly die for them

 

[adadadog]

Prison Companies wrote tough laws to get more people in jail to work for them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWg-rLYcO7o

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[oldtime]

Quote from Humpy:

What a pleasant surprise to hear from an educated American who talks sense ! One can get a bit tired of high-fives, Greenspan's delphic like utterences that have morphed into Benny's burps and all that razza.

Our idiotic politicians listen to the NEW talk and forget the tried and tested. Obviously a country and an individual has to balance up what is best for themselves. The old or even the new isn't all rubbish to be chucked out entirely.
We admit our Govt was wrong in the 1770s to tax you lot so much and caused the inevitable break-up.
You in the USA had the great advantage of starting afresh. Pity you are still stuck with a now very outdated, patched up system.

Set out with high ideals but reality has kicked in. You guys are looking a bit bewildered.
Gotta get used to 2nd best somehow, I suppose. We did.

You can't eat high principles but one can certainly die for them

this wouldn't be "misery loves company" would it? Are you enjoying our demise because it finally doesn't make you look so bad? Great Britain will never be restored to it's former glory, but we still could be if we just stopped doing what we are doing. If you are truly our ally you could help a little by holding up a few "YANKEE GO HOME" signs up at our military base in your country.