need help - tension
- Thread starter dozu888
- Start date
Hi,
If the books on self talk written for trading are not good enough try the web site which is the web site for the brilliant Psycholgists who first developed cognitive therapy back in 1955. Albert Ellis. Beck was the second guy and he came 5 years later and didn't fully get it right and later admitted that Ellis nailed it. They became friends later. If there is any place that you can find the answer it is through their books. I use it all the time for trading and it is usefull well beyond this. It is not hard to understand either really. You can search the website for books on anxiety and chronic fear. Maybe the solution is there. Some books may actually be in the book store and you can flip through them first. The thing is Ellis who died at age 93 a year ago or so, has at least 10,000 professional followers in his dicsipline now and many are brilliant authors in their own right (Paul Hauck is excellent). You can not get any better than this. I have read about 40 of their books. Lots of areas in life are covered.
www.REBT.org
John.
If the books on self talk written for trading are not good enough try the web site which is the web site for the brilliant Psycholgists who first developed cognitive therapy back in 1955. Albert Ellis. Beck was the second guy and he came 5 years later and didn't fully get it right and later admitted that Ellis nailed it. They became friends later. If there is any place that you can find the answer it is through their books. I use it all the time for trading and it is usefull well beyond this. It is not hard to understand either really. You can search the website for books on anxiety and chronic fear. Maybe the solution is there. Some books may actually be in the book store and you can flip through them first. The thing is Ellis who died at age 93 a year ago or so, has at least 10,000 professional followers in his dicsipline now and many are brilliant authors in their own right (Paul Hauck is excellent). You can not get any better than this. I have read about 40 of their books. Lots of areas in life are covered.
www.REBT.org
John.
Nailing down the basics is a precursor to an edge, but mastering those basics does not give you any edge. An edge is an advantage you expolit from a weakness in a stock, option, future, etc. that other traders or the same instrument do not have, including system, method, analysis, etc. that gives you better results than other traders.
Reading another book will bring you no closer to conquering emotions in your trading. Time pushing the buttons of your own money in the market is your only cure. Trade very small until all emotions are gone in a trade, then up your size a little, and repeat at each level.
There is nothing wrong with intensity. You must be intense to filter out fear and greed while heeding your system and just following the rules. If trading is any more complicated for you than that, you must simplify your system before trading in any sustainable and repeatable manner.
If you are unsuccessful in ridding your trading of emotions, you should find a different field, unless you enjoy banging your head against a wall with the same results over time.
Success.
In a rush here. Quick post.
The last post is correct. You have to get in to the situation and do it. Technically this is called "invivo". This is because the fear is more than the mind but a body habit too (adrenalin, etc). You are retraining the automic nerve system. However the mind has to be forced to think certain thoughts too. They work together. One way is to answer questions which are designed to bring out the correct thoughts (it is the most effective way to force yourself to think a certain set of thoughts). A technique called "Graduated descensitization may work" off hours. It uses imagery. Some musicians use beta-blockers to help reduce the adrenalin feeling but I would try to avoid that personally.
The last post is correct. You have to get in to the situation and do it. Technically this is called "invivo". This is because the fear is more than the mind but a body habit too (adrenalin, etc). You are retraining the automic nerve system. However the mind has to be forced to think certain thoughts too. They work together. One way is to answer questions which are designed to bring out the correct thoughts (it is the most effective way to force yourself to think a certain set of thoughts). A technique called "Graduated descensitization may work" off hours. It uses imagery. Some musicians use beta-blockers to help reduce the adrenalin feeling but I would try to avoid that personally.
Trading day is done for me. Anyway, graduated descensitization is a technique where you get yourself very relaxed then pull up the image of what scares you. Apparently studies have shown that it is impossible to be frightened when you are extremely relaxed. So I think what happens here if you do this often enough over a long period of time is you train your body to relax at the simulus rather than get tense at the simulus. You practice it backwards then in real life you do it forwards. The technique is detailed in some of the books on that www.rebt.org web site. Can't remember which ones though. It is actually behavior therapy rather than congnitive therapy.
======================
a]Frankly, its much easier to get stressed with trading, more so than other businessres.Wisdom is profitable to direct.
b]I am assuming you are trading with the long term & medium trend ,its down/bear market;
longs should be much more stressed now , probabilities are against them, now.
Profits tend to be more fragile & frequent, like i said ;
more so than most any other business
L]Longer time /years you trade & longer time frame you trade, the less stress;
regular exercise helps. I like 2 cups of coffee, but soft drinks/sugar really goof up my body, especially during the day.
W]Whole wheat bread helps;
i get cranky/irratable quick without those ''B'' vitamins
Big one. What the hay!
Lots of great advice being given here. There is are underlying components to most of it (underlying patterns or abstractions).
Regarding the foods the underlying component is to look for ones that are healthy and especially the ones that increase serotonin levels. They call it the happy hormone. Calcium, Magnesium foods. Bananas, Whole grains. Bananas. Exercise increases serotonin levels. Coffee causes certain chemicals to be flushed out of the body and reduces some of these chemicals (for every cup of coffee you have to take replacement Calcium and Magnesium and you find the amount on the web. Coffee of course has caffeine and studies show it increases tension (I wish I could get myself to quit). Goggle searches would give the ways to increase this hormone. Lots of good sleep. Reduce other stresses (www.rebt.org books help here generally). Coffee causes dehydration at the molecular level apparently and this causes fatigue.
www.rebt.org books teach the underlying thinking categories (the underlying components) behind the good advice you are getting here. It helps to know this since you can detect yourself falling into certain types of thinking traps during the trading day and you can correct yourself. It is like the chess player. They know the names of all the moves. If you know the names for the types of thought categories that cause tension you spot yourself making the errors easier. Examples follow:
In REBT Anti-Catastrophizing is defined as visualizing a positive outcome. (review those great trades you call and think the best rather than the worst â work at this habit day in and day out).
Anti-awfulizing is defined as evaluating an outcome (whatever it may be) as not really all that terrible (a continuum of best to worst is used such as â at least I am not dead).
So if you trade small and you loose the outcome is not all that bad (not a catastrophe) and it is easier to anti-awfulize it too (not the end of the world as it were).
The thing is you have to get thinking these ways often enough that they become a very fast habit (auto-pilot) which some call unconscious. The trick is to get yourself thinking this way when you need it (prepared questions and force these thoughts out).
All these techniques have to become habits. The graduated desensitization has to be done until it is a habit in real life. Deep breathing causes the atomic nerve system to calm after 4 minutes. There was at least a book on the www.rebt.org site that gives this time frame. It is used for people with panic attacks. Also it mentions it takes 7 exposures before you settle down (7 live trades per day I would think). You will notice that after the 7th one you donât react as badly. Studies show this number if very consistent.
Lots of work. View the work as a fun challenge. A game. Another habit to establish. Underlying mental technique is called âreframingâ. Reframe as much as you can to see the positive rather than the negative. Cheery traders are more relaxed.
Reading isnât enough but the knowledge gained from it can make you more effective as you work hard to establish these habits during the trading day (less wheel spinning). Hay, Buffet got lots of education in business before he put it to use but he did put it to use. Same shit, different day. Hard to argue with his success. Donât think those who do all this well all do it naturally. Charlie Parker use to practice his brains out on his horn but when a beginner on his instrument asked how he did it he said âIt is easy, it comes naturallyâ Why? Because he wanted to discourage the competition by dropping their moral when it did not come easily to them.
Lots of great advice being given here. There is are underlying components to most of it (underlying patterns or abstractions).
Regarding the foods the underlying component is to look for ones that are healthy and especially the ones that increase serotonin levels. They call it the happy hormone. Calcium, Magnesium foods. Bananas, Whole grains. Bananas. Exercise increases serotonin levels. Coffee causes certain chemicals to be flushed out of the body and reduces some of these chemicals (for every cup of coffee you have to take replacement Calcium and Magnesium and you find the amount on the web. Coffee of course has caffeine and studies show it increases tension (I wish I could get myself to quit). Goggle searches would give the ways to increase this hormone. Lots of good sleep. Reduce other stresses (www.rebt.org books help here generally). Coffee causes dehydration at the molecular level apparently and this causes fatigue.
www.rebt.org books teach the underlying thinking categories (the underlying components) behind the good advice you are getting here. It helps to know this since you can detect yourself falling into certain types of thinking traps during the trading day and you can correct yourself. It is like the chess player. They know the names of all the moves. If you know the names for the types of thought categories that cause tension you spot yourself making the errors easier. Examples follow:
In REBT Anti-Catastrophizing is defined as visualizing a positive outcome. (review those great trades you call and think the best rather than the worst â work at this habit day in and day out).
Anti-awfulizing is defined as evaluating an outcome (whatever it may be) as not really all that terrible (a continuum of best to worst is used such as â at least I am not dead).
So if you trade small and you loose the outcome is not all that bad (not a catastrophe) and it is easier to anti-awfulize it too (not the end of the world as it were).
The thing is you have to get thinking these ways often enough that they become a very fast habit (auto-pilot) which some call unconscious. The trick is to get yourself thinking this way when you need it (prepared questions and force these thoughts out).
All these techniques have to become habits. The graduated desensitization has to be done until it is a habit in real life. Deep breathing causes the atomic nerve system to calm after 4 minutes. There was at least a book on the www.rebt.org site that gives this time frame. It is used for people with panic attacks. Also it mentions it takes 7 exposures before you settle down (7 live trades per day I would think). You will notice that after the 7th one you donât react as badly. Studies show this number if very consistent.
Lots of work. View the work as a fun challenge. A game. Another habit to establish. Underlying mental technique is called âreframingâ. Reframe as much as you can to see the positive rather than the negative. Cheery traders are more relaxed.
Reading isnât enough but the knowledge gained from it can make you more effective as you work hard to establish these habits during the trading day (less wheel spinning). Hay, Buffet got lots of education in business before he put it to use but he did put it to use. Same shit, different day. Hard to argue with his success. Donât think those who do all this well all do it naturally. Charlie Parker use to practice his brains out on his horn but when a beginner on his instrument asked how he did it he said âIt is easy, it comes naturallyâ Why? Because he wanted to discourage the competition by dropping their moral when it did not come easily to them.
Giving up coffee drinking throughout the day is one of the bst things I have ever done (still drink one cup after wakeup but that is on th e hit list).
I found substituting green tea an easy way to qut coffee - I only drink 3 cups of green tea per day - it is not 'moreish' like coffee.
Coffee is really foul stuff - something you recognise after you have given it up.
I found substituting green tea an easy way to qut coffee - I only drink 3 cups of green tea per day - it is not 'moreish' like coffee.
Coffee is really foul stuff - something you recognise after you have given it up.