Need Help Developing a New Trading Style for the ES

lmt · Jul 19, 2003

Quote from gwnorth:

Well Visiontrader have a look at Woodies site and his CCI setup methods. Just started this week and the training and insight he provides on this indicator is outstanding. Lots of good proffessional traders there who post trades on the ES NQ YM along with some Bond stuff. No outside chat that distracts from trading just pure real good trading tips etc. Find him at his site Woodies CCI Club.com and breakdown and spend the $10.00 per month for the HotComm license fee and thats it. Wish I did it months ago. Woodies moto is traders helping traders. No one looking to soak you for a huge monthly subscription fee. This is what anybody learning needs.

Best of Luck

I agree, Woodies room is consistently, month in and month out, the best place to learn a good method. You won't find better help and encouragement.

FasterPussycat · Jul 19, 2003

Quote from lmt:

I agree, Woodies room is consistently, month in and month out, the best place to learn a good method. You won't find better help and encouragement.

i wanna check it out, what's Woodie's URL?

lmt · Jul 19, 2003

www.woodiescciclub.com

funky · Jul 19, 2003

Quote from VisionTrader:

I guess I may need to shut down the old 1 minute chart at some point if I go this route. It will be a sad day. The last couple weeks I have been trading a combination of my VisionTrade system and what I am now calling FutureVision. (i need a life ) If you followed my journal at all you may remember that I paper traded it. The last two weeks I have been live trading the system. The first week was not good, not because the of the system, it was more me getting acclimated to the entries, etc. This past week the results were pretty good. They were right on line with the journal results. I made 11.5 points trading 1 contract in real time.

With that said, you may be wondering why the hell I would try to change something that at least shows signs of working. Well, truth is, the amount of time executing during the day is not exactly an easy task and requires tremendous concentration. I would like to develop the same type of system for longer periods, trade less, spend my time analyzing instead of clicking the mouse button every few seconds. Part of my process here at ET is to figure out where I want to go. I'm on the journey and enjoying it.

i ran into a similar problem. i finally developed a system using the 1min charts that was profitable but i started realizing that had i been using the 5min charts i would have been pulling more profits and fewer trades. i still use the 1min charts for entry, but all of my setups come from the 5min. this tends to capture most of all the big moves during the day, and will keep you in trades for the majority of the move as opposed to getting out and back in 3 times during a move.

easyrider · Jul 19, 2003

Nice post Vision. Beautifully written. I hear you. Going for the move is definitely where its at. Hard to play, but doable.

PetaDollar · Jul 20, 2003

Quote from jem:

I have a question along these lines too. I have a few trades I believe in based on setups. I would love to automate them and back test them and experiment with the best way to exit them, and then apply them to multiple markets. For a guy who is not a programmer. What is the most time effective way or platform to start attempting to become a more backtested trader.

thanks

If you trade off of charts, backtesting is best done by hand. Fill in a spreadsheet as you go, with the date and time, for each trade.

After this you can go back and study the winners. You can get a feel for what winners look like. Same goes for losers.

It takes a long time, but you can internalize such a wealth of information that a computer program could not give you. It also makes a big difference in confidence when/if you take it live.

I do it both by computer and by hand. But the computer part is only for a quick initial look. If i'm seriously thinking about trading something new i'll devote a few weeks to go through the charts by hand and build up a data table. In fact i'm starting a new one tonight!

For an example see the "tradin' hammers" thread in the TA forum.

If this is not applicable to your trading methods you can always hire someone to write a stand-alone program for you (me for instance, cheap).

ElectricSavant · Jul 20, 2003

I agree with peterfigliozzi suggestion, If I may add....include MAE and MFE in that spreadsheet.

Michael B.

VisionTrader · Jul 20, 2003

Quote from peterfigliozzi:

If you trade off of charts, backtesting is best done by hand. Fill in a spreadsheet as you go, with the date and time, for each trade.

After this you can go back and study the winners. You can get a feel for what winners look like. Same goes for losers.

It takes a long time, but you can internalize such a wealth of information that a computer program could not give you. It also makes a big difference in confidence when/if you take it live.

I do it both by computer and by hand. But the computer part is only for a quick initial look. If i'm seriously thinking about trading something new i'll devote a few weeks to go through the charts by hand and build up a data table. In fact i'm starting a new one tonight!

PF,

Good advice. The way I accomplish my backtesting is in TradeStation. I DO NOT use the strategy tester though. What I do is scroll back over the data from several years. Advancing the chart on the "right edge". I document each entry in a s/s and then keep scrolling for the results.

The one big issue with this, based on my style, is that I rely a lot on stochastic hooking. In realtime, the hook is "occurring/boucncing" In the backtesting, you don't get this. The hook has happened and in long timeframe charts, you can not be completely sure where price was when you got the hook.

Thanks for the input though. I've got it in the memory banks. Appreciate it.

VisionTrader · Jul 20, 2003

Quote from funky:

i ran into a similar problem. i finally developed a system using the 1min charts that was profitable but i started realizing that had i been using the 5min charts i would have been pulling more profits and fewer trades. i still use the 1min charts for entry, but all of my setups come from the 5min. this tends to capture most of all the big moves during the day, and will keep you in trades for the majority of the move as opposed to getting out and back in 3 times during a move.

Funky,

I hear you. I remember reading thru a thread where you were discussing this issue. I agree with you. One other note, although I knew commissions and slippage had to be accounted for with my VisionTrade system, I did not realize how much they actually impacted my bottom line until I got a real taste. It was even more evident as I really felt like I overtraded. No let me say that a different way. "I REALLY OVERTRADED". If someone starts a thread on overtrading, I'll jump right in

Bruto Blukowski · Jul 20, 2003

Quote from VisionTrader:

The one big issue with this, based on my style, is that I rely a lot on stochastic hooking. In realtime, the hook is "occurring/boucncing" In the backtesting, you don't get this. The hook has happened and in long timeframe charts, you can not be completely sure where price was when you got the hook.

I don't know if I should laugh or cry. Your trying for an edge and your being shot like a fish in a barrel - with a hook in your mouth to boot while trading completely subjectively short term. Do you understand this?

Here's a quote from a new thread that just started:

"What you see on the screen is a ruse. It prompts average Joes to provide their contributions to the system. The lowest moth has a hundred ways of deceiving for survival â why not a chart? These ruses milk people for fractional costs of trading, while maintaining the image of hope."

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=20102