You are very fortunate in that you are getting so much attention here from some of the world's greatest traders!! That being the case, rather than receiving general advice to solve your problems, you might consider posting some charts showing past trades, both good and bad, and noting why you entered and exited in order to pinpoint the cause of your problems. True, your approach may be one with which nobody here can help you.But it may be worth a shot.
Need Advice
- Thread starter trader99
- Start date
trader99, your situation is not unique.
Many others have gone through the same journey if you have read some trading books, such as a physician traded part time for many years and eventually went full time, etc.
However, if you’re truly talented at (day)trading it should have already shown so clearly. You are obviously not in that genius pool. Most of us are not, and that only means your trading career will be a long long process, if it ever will be successful.
Now you know the answer to your own question......
Do whatever you are good at now to support your family (you have a kid - a big money pit later on during the college years). You have studied for many years and earned multiple degrees, plus all the years of work experience. You just don’t realize your own value in your current profession.
I know independence and freedom are tempting, but there is really no free lunch. Have you spent the some amount of time, effort and practice in your trading as in your current profession? Yet trading is a far harder job.
If you are truly determined, trade part time and keep learning. Be prepared to do this for years, and when the time comes you’ll know it, just like that physician.
Many others have gone through the same journey if you have read some trading books, such as a physician traded part time for many years and eventually went full time, etc.
However, if you’re truly talented at (day)trading it should have already shown so clearly. You are obviously not in that genius pool. Most of us are not, and that only means your trading career will be a long long process, if it ever will be successful.
Now you know the answer to your own question......
Do whatever you are good at now to support your family (you have a kid - a big money pit later on during the college years). You have studied for many years and earned multiple degrees, plus all the years of work experience. You just don’t realize your own value in your current profession.
I know independence and freedom are tempting, but there is really no free lunch. Have you spent the some amount of time, effort and practice in your trading as in your current profession? Yet trading is a far harder job.
If you are truly determined, trade part time and keep learning. Be prepared to do this for years, and when the time comes you’ll know it, just like that physician.
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Just over three years with a live account, after four years of learning/studying/practicing/playing on demo/sim - a lot longer than most people, but that was mostly because I was under-age for a real account: I started learning when I was very young, with a lot of parental encouragement and enthusiasm, because I was very "mathematical" and antisocial, even at that age (in fact especially at that age).
I think it's really hard to judge this by others' experiences - and to be honest mine are perhaps particularly useless to anyone else, because of the reality that I had some information/facilities available that few others are likely to have. For example, I was able to start off my first funded account with just over $3,000 (this was for trading spot forex with 1:100 leverage, at first) when I was 18, and at no point during the next three years did I need to withdraw any funds from it at all, as I had another income-source. I was always part-time, but still quite a lot of hours for "part-time". Like you I've done various college degrees; I didn't finish college until 2014.
Indeed - exactly so; and wishing you well with it. But it takes "as long as it takes".
Thank for the honesty and frank assessment. Yes, if I was a genius at trading it would be apparent not. My genius lies elsewhere. I have multiple degrees from some pretty highly ranked institutions of higher learning. And I have developed my career capital. You are right.
It's unwise to throw all that away in HOPE of making money in daytrading.
Now, just to clarify a little bit. There has been multiple times where I've doubled, tripled, and at one time 10x(albeit a very small starting base) my account! But I kept NONE of the gains! And this has been happening on and off for a while. So, I say I have good signals but HORRIBLE risk management.
So 2018 is the year I will not only learn but focused on tight risk management. I've done this analysis before where I take years worth of data and just cut my losses at a fixed limit amount and my results were amazing! Just blew my mind. It's like I only cared and looked at the gain side and not about the risk side.
This is the year where I will grow up and be a real professional and take a serious look at the risk side and managed it appropriately. And that's why I think 2018 will be my breakthrough year!
But you make an important point. I have family to support now. As I mentioned previously, I became a widowed single dad shortly after this thread start back at the end 2016. One days when I'm winning I feel great. One losing days I feel like I'm putting my daughter's future at risk. She just turned 5 recently and a total cutiepie and daddy's girl. No, that's not right. Especially when I have so many other steady income options available to me. Every day I get recruiters call for various high paying jobs in the tech sector.
Luck would have it, my side business idea is rolling along well. It's still early but very promising. So I will focus on that and scale it up. The nice thing about running your own business is you have flexibility to trade part-time in the morning for a few hours. Then focus on my business.
As they say, trading is the hardest easy money in the world to make. When you are right then thousands flow to you with also no effort. When you are wrong and struggling then it's the worst job in the world.
It's very clear to me now what I need to do going forward. But thanks for making the points extra clear.
I'll focus on expanding my business and generate steady income and do side consulting. And only trade part-time. Striving to learn and improve constantly. Risk management being the main focus for 2018.
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There are many great trades and horrible trades. Without pulling out of my old records, in recent memory
Futures Side:
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I made $17K across 3 accounts in one day(actually a few hours late in the night) when Nikkei was trading
You can find details here:
https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/how-to-scale-what-to-do-next.298609/page-2#post-4297631
Of course, I kept NONE of those fantastic gains in the long run. Poor risk management. My signals are great but my risk management is HORRIBLE.
Equities Side:
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Made 86% gain in a few hours on LFIN. Again, my account still down for the year. Bad risk management.
Options Side:
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I've made 600%-12x albeit on very very small amounts.
Those are the most recent ones. Years before that I've doubled, tripled, and 10x my accounts on multiple occasions. Gains are gone because of again poor risk management.
On worst trades in recent memory, being short in 2017 and 2016 directly or indirectly. I lost a LOT of money buying TVIX. The worst trading mistake of my recent career. I lost money buying TVIX etf, VIX options, VIX futures. I lost money on TECS(small), etc. All because of stupid bearish bias.
I've gotten out of all of this rubbish positions. I'm glad I did because it's still going down nonstop. This bull market is too strong. Don't be stupid and get in front of this freight train.
So, 2018 is the year I focus on risk management. Hopefully that will turn things around. I think given my same signals I should be doing a lot better if I control the downside.
But as I've said before, I will focus on things that generate steady income. And do trading part-time only.
That's a really interesting story. You are quite blessed to start trading in the market as such a young age. While I knew about the markets in my teens too, it was mostly an intellectual activity. I would read BusinessWeek, WSJ, Forbes, etc. After I graduated from college, I actually worked as a quant. But the firm was a long-term mutual fund type. So, no TA. It's all fundamentally driven long term buy and hold type. It wasn't until later that I got into prop trading and daytrading that I found out this game was nontrivial. haha. Then after failed prop trading, i switched industry and went into tech.
With hindsights, I think I would have saved myself a lot of money and heartaches if I had traded on sim for a length of time before starting to trade with real money. That would be great. But here am I.
Well, it's inspiring to hear you started in the markets so young and now doing it full-time and with success. You are a role model!
So, do you only trade futures intraday? Do you ever hold overnight positions? As detailed in another thread on ET, I briefly worked for a small hedge fund. I got in on my credentials, but I sucked as a trader. haha. Smaller funds are fun and more intimate environment to work in.
It's great that you had such encouraging and supportive parents. I'm glad to hear you are very "mathematical." I love math. I was an ex-quant afterall.
About being antisocial, I've been there. Those were difficult years growing up being antisocial. Now I'm better but still don't have a lot of friends. But the few friends that I have are really good friends and been with me for a long time. So, no worries about being antisocial. We all go through those periods. And it's OK to be an introvert. Life needs all types of people and all types of people can thrive if they find their niche in life.
I know the journey to trading success takes a long time. Hopefully 2018 will be my breakthrough year... I'll keep you posted as I learn and grow.
No; only intraday.
Not only periods, really, for me: I have Asperger's syndrome.
Do that - many here, in addition to me, will be interested to see your progress.
In NQ points except when it's labeled YM points.
Acct1: Short. Loss -5.50 pts(manageable loss). Switched to long made 1 pt, Long -4pts. If I had just held longer it would all come back. This is the BTFD market as people say. No fear.
Acct2: long 1.25pts, short -4 YM pts(I was actually up nicer but like open profits turned into losses! ack!) , short +6 YM pts.
I got up late so I missed out the big rally in the morning. Playing the scraps since then. I realized even on a rally days there are still small pockets where one can profit from shorts. But you gotta be quick. In and out.
While I'm open to going long and have gone long, my long strategy is still not very refined and good yet. I'm chasing price and when the pullback comes I get stopped out . Rather than waiting for the sweet spot and getting in and riding up. But at least psychologically, I'm ready to go long as short for the most part. Which is an improvement.
Since I'm playing with just 1 lot until I get better, it feels like a waste of time. There are other activities that generate better and more steady source of cash flow. haha. But I understand this is the learning process. Everything takes time.
Acct1: Short. Loss -5.50 pts(manageable loss). Switched to long made 1 pt, Long -4pts. If I had just held longer it would all come back. This is the BTFD market as people say. No fear.
Acct2: long 1.25pts, short -4 YM pts(I was actually up nicer but like open profits turned into losses! ack!) , short +6 YM pts.
I got up late so I missed out the big rally in the morning. Playing the scraps since then. I realized even on a rally days there are still small pockets where one can profit from shorts. But you gotta be quick. In and out.
While I'm open to going long and have gone long, my long strategy is still not very refined and good yet. I'm chasing price and when the pullback comes I get stopped out . Rather than waiting for the sweet spot and getting in and riding up. But at least psychologically, I'm ready to go long as short for the most part. Which is an improvement.
Since I'm playing with just 1 lot until I get better, it feels like a waste of time. There are other activities that generate better and more steady source of cash flow. haha. But I understand this is the learning process. Everything takes time.
Without a solid, defined plan and discipline and focus, it takes forever. Do you have forever? Working a fast food window pays better than the lack of the aforementioned.