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Need Advice on career change into trading
- Thread starter venturerider2
- Start date
Quote from PuffyGums:
The forest ranger thing I completely understand. But why would a person leave a high paying, high stress job for another high stress job where the best possible (and not assured) outcome would be merely to replace his existing CEO income with trading income?
Agree with the stress part ... but maybe he/she requires less income from trading. And maybe it's the "freedom" thing ... I don't make as much $$ trading as I did in my final corporate job but it doesn't bother me .. I'm not trying to maximize income .. rather I'm trying to balance making a living with other facets of life .. I set goals for trading income .. I don't need as much income these days with no mortgage and no debt of any kind .. if/when I reach a $$ goal I'm out the door to do something fun ... life's too short to not enjoy it as much as possible IMO
DHO, I agree with you and what you had to say. I really do see a lot of people here who, instead of warning the OP, they're discouraging him.
To the others:
Who are you to say he can't do it? I don't encourage friends to trade for a living but if they want to, all you can do is tell them the pitfalls along the way that they have to be prepared for. Seriously, just because it took you 5 years of losing money before learning how to trade doesn't mean everyone has to go through that.
Also, trading doesn't have to be a high stress job. You only have yourself to deal with and possibly wife and kids. If the OP has put enough money away, then by god, go ahead and do it if it's something he really wants to try.
I've been trading for a few years - I position trade and it has never really been that stressful to me compared to my current job. I'm about to quit my job, too, in 6 months to start trading full time.
To the others:
Who are you to say he can't do it? I don't encourage friends to trade for a living but if they want to, all you can do is tell them the pitfalls along the way that they have to be prepared for. Seriously, just because it took you 5 years of losing money before learning how to trade doesn't mean everyone has to go through that.
Also, trading doesn't have to be a high stress job. You only have yourself to deal with and possibly wife and kids. If the OP has put enough money away, then by god, go ahead and do it if it's something he really wants to try.
I've been trading for a few years - I position trade and it has never really been that stressful to me compared to my current job. I'm about to quit my job, too, in 6 months to start trading full time.
Venturer-
I think what you are seeking is quite possible, though maybe not very probable. The only way I know to "learn" to perform at the level which you describe is to find someone who's already there AND is willing to teach you.....all day, every day, for a long time (maybe a year or more). Even if you are ever able to find this person, (and depending on the style of trading) you would need similar intelligence, experience, contacts, etc. I also think it would takes a particular personality type(s) to play on this level. Good luck!
I think what you are seeking is quite possible, though maybe not very probable. The only way I know to "learn" to perform at the level which you describe is to find someone who's already there AND is willing to teach you.....all day, every day, for a long time (maybe a year or more). Even if you are ever able to find this person, (and depending on the style of trading) you would need similar intelligence, experience, contacts, etc. I also think it would takes a particular personality type(s) to play on this level. Good luck!
Quote from venturerider2:
I am currently exploring the possibilities of leaving my current career and âtrading for a livingâ. I am looking for a change in my life and I have always had a passion for the markets and the idea of proprietary trading.
I have been trading âhere and thereâ for the last three years (mostly equities and options/spreads). I have taken several courses and read more books than I can remember. I use Metastock but I never really get a chance to dig in like Iâd want to because I have a full time job that requires a significant amount of time and responsibility. So I have not really developed the plan, system, and edge I need in order to start making serious money through trading.
Here is my background in a nutshell so you understand where I am coming from:
A. I am a successful entrepreneur and CEO of a mid-size professional services firm in New York City and my compensation (which is significant by most peopleâs standards) is not something that I can walk away form easily.
B. My goal in trading would be to âeventuallyâ earn in the healthy 7 figures. I realize this can take time (years) and I also realize that it may not happen at all. But letâs face it, while most people never reach these goals, there are a few that do - and thatâs what motivates me.
C. I am in my mid 40âs, married, with 4 teenage/elementary school age children. (nuff said there?)
D. My formal education is electrical engineering. My jobs have included 3 years as an electronics engineer, 2 years as a technical sales rep, 5 years as a stockbroker (major brokerage firms, training programs, diversified product experience), 16 years of executive recruiting (specializing in financial services). I started and built the company I have today which is considered a leader in its field.
So here are my questions:
1. How many months/years of living expenses does one typically need before they are consistently profitable and able to sustain themselves by only trading for a living? I know it varies but letâs work with averages.
2. If I were to âwalk awayâ from my current career (sell my stake in my firm) and take on a job in trading, what kind of firm might be interested in me, if any? (As a recruiter â I am well aware of the fact that major investment banks and hedge funds will not hire people at my age). I see many people on this forum taking pot shots at prop trading firms. Iâm sure many are well-deserved but my feeling is that they are in business to make money â just like I am and just like Goldman Sachs is. The real question is - are there individuals at some of these firms who have come in with no formal trading experience and are now making millions?
3. Am I better off just trading on my own? part-time (while I keep my current well-paid job), until I feel comfortable with what I can do? This just seems like a daunting task, given the competitive nature of the markets. My feeling is that trading part-time is like fighting with one hand tied behind your back. Am I wrong?
4. I know several people who are traders and who are very wealthy. All of these people either started on the floor of an exchange when they were younger, or have come up through the ranks of a trading career at major Wall Street firms. I donât know anyone who just started trading from home, on his or her own, and became wealthy. Do you? I donât know any middle age guys who quit their jobs and became wealthy traders. Do you? Iâd like to hear that other people have done it and where/how. Iâd like to hear that this is possible!
To be candid, I am less interested in a position in which a black box or model tells me when to push a buy or sell button and, while I do have very quick reflexes, I am not interested in working in an environment where split second actions and being a video game champion are the keys to being a successful trader.
I would prefer working with people who value analytical skills, strategic thinking, discipline, decisiveness, and business (P/L) experience.
Ok â so I donât expect you to answer all the questions - thereâs a lot there. Any tidbits of advice from your experience would be helpful.
Thanks,
Venturerider2
I do not know about you guys but I cannot see myself doing this for a lifetime, it's just too demanding.
You can say what you want but the level of concentration required to trade is tough and certainly it doesn't do any good to your eyes.
you need to be fit, alert and very healthy to face daily competition and I am not sure you can carry on for many years.
I don't rely on trading for my main income and thank god for that, I'd advice anyone running a successful business to think twice before leaving a sure income on the table and fully committing to trading: there's no guaranteed monthly income.
My view
P
You can say what you want but the level of concentration required to trade is tough and certainly it doesn't do any good to your eyes.
you need to be fit, alert and very healthy to face daily competition and I am not sure you can carry on for many years.
I don't rely on trading for my main income and thank god for that, I'd advice anyone running a successful business to think twice before leaving a sure income on the table and fully committing to trading: there's no guaranteed monthly income.
My view
P
Lots of comments in these forums biased to discourage rather than encourage.
Reflecting on my own life, I've actually climbed everyone else's "wall of worry." Here's a few tidbits:
- "Dont go straight into a university, go to a community college first... its cheaper, easier, etc, etc"
- "Forget majoring in engineering, you'll have no life, take business instead like everyone else. You're done in 4yrs or less."
- "Don't go for your masters degree now (1999), everyone is getting multiple job offers instantly, or getting rich daytrading, etc."
- "Done't settle for a lowly government job, go work for the high-profile tech companies. The economy is getting better and the pay is SO much better."
(The guy who told me this was later layed off and still can't find a job, and the gov't is on a hiring freeze)
- "Gold and silver? WTF about it?! (2003). Look at all these super cheap nasdaq stocks!!....."
- "Losers rent apartments.. winners buy houses.." (still awaiting the outcome to this one).
Now I'm pretty much encountering the same old wall of worry about trading as a career. That's fine, cause I totally expected as much. The path of least resistance is usually the least rewarding.
Reflecting on my own life, I've actually climbed everyone else's "wall of worry." Here's a few tidbits:
- "Dont go straight into a university, go to a community college first... its cheaper, easier, etc, etc"
- "Forget majoring in engineering, you'll have no life, take business instead like everyone else. You're done in 4yrs or less."
- "Don't go for your masters degree now (1999), everyone is getting multiple job offers instantly, or getting rich daytrading, etc."
- "Done't settle for a lowly government job, go work for the high-profile tech companies. The economy is getting better and the pay is SO much better."
(The guy who told me this was later layed off and still can't find a job, and the gov't is on a hiring freeze)
- "Gold and silver? WTF about it?! (2003). Look at all these super cheap nasdaq stocks!!....."
- "Losers rent apartments.. winners buy houses.." (still awaiting the outcome to this one).
Now I'm pretty much encountering the same old wall of worry about trading as a career. That's fine, cause I totally expected as much. The path of least resistance is usually the least rewarding.
You'd better explain to your wife that you arent going to make money for the short term. The best candidate for a new prop trader is someone who doesnt have a ton of responsibilities to meet outside of work. Its gonna take a while (maybe a few years) before you really start seeing decent money. The last thing you want after a tough day of trading is someone questioning you about your choice and nagging you about money. Trading is hard enough....you dont need to come home to that cr#p. Also make sure you have 6 mos to a year's worth of living expenses saved up .
Like the other guys on here said...the days of making easy money are long gone. You have to work your azz off to be successful in todays markets. Find an edge/idea that is different then others, and then trade the hell out of it. While 7 figures is a nice goal, unless you are trading huge size in theis low volatility environment, that aint easy to achieve.
Also if I ahd a choice of prop trading stocks or futures(have done both).....is a no brainer...trade futures. More volatility and more opportunity.
Ok....am done blabbing...
Like the other guys on here said...the days of making easy money are long gone. You have to work your azz off to be successful in todays markets. Find an edge/idea that is different then others, and then trade the hell out of it. While 7 figures is a nice goal, unless you are trading huge size in theis low volatility environment, that aint easy to achieve.
Also if I ahd a choice of prop trading stocks or futures(have done both).....is a no brainer...trade futures. More volatility and more opportunity.
Ok....am done blabbing...
Quote from DHOHHI:
You can succeed, some of the negative posts here are from failed traders. What's your chance of success? A lot depends on how hard you're willing to work. If you worked hard to build a business then you know what kind of challenges might be out there on the way to success.
Your concept of success is not everyone's concept of success, people are at different points in their lives and seek out different goals. Some just want to move on seeking the smarter opportunity & potential while some want to pursue their passion & interest no matter the challenges.
Success of a full time career trader is measured in dollars, NOT skill, hard work, consistency, longevity, ethic, intelligence or knowledge. It's all about the money, and in the last decade, exploiting the easy gimmicks & easy markets is where the real money was. Best example is that doing the wrong thing during certain years paid off exponentially.
Quote from Hydroblunt:
Your concept of success is not everyone's concept of success, people are at different points in their lives and seek out different goals. Some just want to move on seeking the smarter opportunity & potential while some want to pursue their passion & interest no matter the challenges.
Success of a full time career trader is measured in dollars, NOT skill, hard work, consistency, longevity, ethic, intelligence or knowledge. It's all about the money, and in the last decade, exploiting the easy gimmicks & easy markets is where the real money was. Best example is that doing the wrong thing during certain years paid off exponentially.
What you mean? Adding to your losers (longs) as they got progressively worse during the bull run and waiting for a rally to luckily get out ok with your head still connected to your body?
Think "BIG" Joe Montana did, so did michael Jordon.
The only "Bubble" out there is a credit bubble, as in what has kept the economy afloat. But it looks like the cows are coming home.
There is no better pursuit than to become a trader, indeed the millions are there for the few, but also the big numbers are there for many others.
To get big, you must think big.
The only "Bubble" out there is a credit bubble, as in what has kept the economy afloat. But it looks like the cows are coming home.
There is no better pursuit than to become a trader, indeed the millions are there for the few, but also the big numbers are there for many others.
To get big, you must think big.