Nearly Half of Black Men at New York City Found Jobless

Quote from axeman:

Nihaba,

I generally like your attitude on this.

But I think you need to provide some hard stats.
I sense your glossing over the numbers and ignoring the
bigger picture on purpose.

I know your a stats type of guy, so how about some stats
to back up what your saying??

Nihaba:If you think minorities (blacks) are the only culture in America with broken families...your misinformed.


I think we can all agree they are NOT the only culture
with this problem. The way you worded your statement,
it always has to be true :)

But the real issue is, does any one group have this problem at a
disproportionately HIGH rate?


How about some numbers?

Per capita number of broken black families?
Per capita number of broken white families?
Per capita number of broken asian families?
Per capita number of broken mexican families?


Everyone can point to examples of racism by all groups.
Everyone can point to examples of a minority making it
against all odds and achieving success.

But discussing this with nothing but anecdotal evidence is
pretty worthless. How about some numbers guys?


peace

axeman
More...

Hi axeman,

Nice to hear from you.

Sorry...all my reference is via conversations with a grad Sociology student, PhD psychology student, state trooper pal and my own two eyes being raised in different cultures along with living in different environments as an adult.

I'm not glossing over any numbers because I've been factual...

Racism is not a black problem...

Thus, to try to provide numbers to support the above fact is mute.

The reference you made...per capital stuff...I'm sure you can go to any book store to get or local library.

Here's the problem...the problem I will continue to address and have been all my life...

When I see a black guy sitting in front of me talking about the horrible things white people did yesterday throughout the world including in America...

In a way that its not occurring in his own back yard sort'uv speak...

That's when I do some reminding.

Just the same...when I see a white guy sitting in front of me talking about the horrible problems in black family structure...

In a way that its not occurring in his own back yard sort'uv speak...

That's when I do some reminding.

If you need some specific stats from my conversations, or reading the New York Times or the numerous websites that keep such stats...

Here's one...I did volunteer work at a local homeless shelter in Seattle for kids...

I remember a livid conversation I had with a student when he said most kids that live on the street are black...

Here's the fact...one I've already posted (you may have not seen it in this thread)...

1 out of every 25 street kids is black.

Here's some more stats...

Of those that are black...75% were from single parent households...

Of those that are white...82% (something like that) were from dysfunctional families that had a mom and pop (two parent household)...

Wouldn't it be foolish of me to come online and say...

White people with an advantage of a two parent household have a problem with keeping their kids from running away from home...

see how I twisted a simple fact.

That's my point.

This is not a black problem nor is it a white problem...

Its a social problem in America...

Open our eyes and look around our environments...its not one culture...

we don't need stats from any source to see that.

To say its a black thing while ignoring there's more than one culture in America...

that's intentional misinformation.

What's the hidden agenda for such misinformation?

Here's another fact...in 1986 at a particular Big Ten university...

there were 9 reported rapes to the campus police by white females.

Of those 9 reported rapes...7 involved white males. 1 involved a hispanic male and the other involved a black athlete...

Guess which one made the papers...guess which ones never made the papers?

I don't need to know stats to know what the above represent....

I don't need to know stats of the per capital crime at that particular university...

What I need to know is how people intentionally want to talk about something to help enforce what ever sterotype image they have of a particular culture.

Based on the stats about that university...

Couldn't blacks walk around and say white male students have a social problem when it comes to relating to women...

wouldn't that be a silly comment or just facts?

Or did I twist the above to encourage sterotyping?

I would prefer to see a discussion about rape as a social problem in America...

not see a discussion as a Black Athlete thing.

The bully kid story I told you about that occur in my childhood...

Look at what oppression can do...

This kid was getting his butt kid so bad...an ambulance had to come...

I did nothing...that's what oppression can do...

It has residual affects long after the act of oppression.

Go lecture every kid in our neighborhood about how they should react while forgetting to lecture the bully...

Your going to have a problem getting your point across.

That's a fact of life.

Every racial slur or racial attack that has been directed my way...I dealt with it...

Last thing I want to hear is from someone in my face preaching to me about how I should feel and react while not saying anything about those that caused the problem in the first place...

Remember the black software designer I mentioned in a prior post...

Her boss never had a conversation with the guy that made the comment...her co-workers never supported her...

Why is it appropriate to lecture her...why is it appropriate to tell her she has a problem with whites?

Explain that to me.

Too many people in America walk around and think blacks of today are having problems with racism committed decades ago...

That was their parents generation...

Blacks today have a problem with racism being committed today...same with any culture.

That's a fact and I don't need stats about that problem...I see it with my own two eyes.

There are websites to keep stats of state crimes and social problems...

One place to start is your local government website...

For social stuff I find...I use websites like the following...

http://www.tolerance.org

Stuff in books are usually years old.

Last of all...I think the general stats by my friend thats a state trooper in the state of Washington...are good enough for me and he doesn't need to be specific nor talk about per capital stuff...

I can see the stats with my own two eyes when I lived in the Seattle area for 11 years...

Once again...no glossing over.

NihabaAshi
 
Those are pretty irrelevant statistics.

The extent of black male unemployment in New York City is attributable to many factors, but the greatest factor is that so many are not employable in today's economy. And so many are not employable because they don't have the required skills for so many jobs, skills which they did not acquire when growing up.

I appreciate your passion NiBashanihi, but you are quite ignorant of the situation faced by black males.
 
Ok Nihaba, I see your angle.

And I agree the media can be pretty skewed
(the recent high gpa black athlete getting screwed on
statutory rape charges comes to mind)
and people tend to re-enforce their own beliefs/stereotypes, but....

Just as you are drawing conclusions based on what you
have experienced with your "own two eyes", the
guy you mentioned below may have done the same thing:

NIHABA: "Just the same...when I see a white guy sitting in front of me talking about the horrible problems in black family structure..."



For example.... I grew up in a poor all black neighborhood
(except for me, the only white kid I was aware of) on
the east coast.

I experienced first hand what this "black" community was like.
I also experienced racism AGAINST ME in that community.
I had ONE black friend, later my best friend, who be-friended me.

Later in college.... I found myself again in a poor black neighborhood
as a starving college student.

This time it was worse... drug dealers, shootings, etc...

The little black kids befriended me, but their older brothers
never spoke a word to me. (The white college dude :) )

The older brothers glorified the drug dealer with the $$$$$$.


One of my own best friends in my teenage years admitted
to me that he HATED white people growing up, especially RICH
white people. Wanted to beat the crap outta them.
Why? Because he was taught that WE were all to blame for
their situation. It was just so UNFAIR that they had all the money!


Now if I go strictly on my own personal experiences what
conclusions would I draw?

1) Black guys dont like me and discriminate against me
2) Black guys think drug dealers are cool
3) YOUNG black kids who have not been molded yet by their
environment are open to being friends.
4) Blacks teens dont seem to have any drive and think working
is selling out to the man.
5) Black guys hate me for being successful
6) Black guys blame me for their lack of success.
(What the hell did I do?)

I think I can honestly say my conclusions would not be necessarily accurate.

This is why I think its important to take a step back and
look at the hard numbers.

Without looking at some good stats, I would wager that the
black community struggles with some cultural problems more
than most other communities.

I think turning a blind eye to this only perpetuates the problem.

Now, in my old age... ha ha... ive become quite color blind.

If some dude walks up to me and is dressed totally ghetto,
like Jesse Jackson, I will have some warning flags up.
But if he opens his mouth, and I suddenly realize an intelligent
person is standing in front of me, im at ease.

If he starts talking like an ignorant idiot, then I get worried.
If he happens to be white, im thinking stupid white trash
Kid Rock wannabee.
If he happens to be black, im thinking, black, childhood, racist,
white hating bullies. LOL.
If he looks like the guy from American History X, im really scared.
I dont look WHITE ENOUGH :D

Its easy to understand how these stereotypes can get
imprinted on people for a long time. We all have them.


In then end, I think the truth lies somewhere between
poverty versus color, and culture. Some percentage of the
black problem is a poverty/education issue. But another
percentage is cultural.

When you grow up in the USA as a black man, watching JZ
flashing $$$ on MTV all day long, its pretty damn hard to
run out and work for peanuts to get started, or put yourself
through school. Your peers will laugh at you working at Micky Dees
as you struggle to get up.
And yeah... teenagers DO worry about what their peers think. A LOT.


This is a huge disadvantage. The stigma is pretty bad.
But an asian kid who goes out and gets some crappy job,
busts his ass, moves up and gets his butt through school
is supported all the way as long as he is working hard.

Cultural differences can play a huge role.
And I think the black community has some serious cultural
disadvantages built in.


peace

axeman
 
Quote from axeman:

Ok Nihaba, I see your angle.


...Without looking at some good stats, I would wager that the black community struggles with some cultural problems more than most other communities.

I think turning a blind eye to this only perpetuates the problem.

Now, in my old age... ha ha... ive become quite color blind...

axeman
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Axeman,

That's my point...too many people have suggested its a black thing...suggested they don't see these problems in other cultures...

I'm simply pointing my statements towards comments made by two particular individuals in this thread...

Racism is an American problem that's reinforced by sterotyping.

Axeman, we can only reflect upon racism...as you have shown via our own experience.

Yet, a few here in this thread took it into another typical direction I've seen one too many times...

This is a black thing and they are the ones with the problem.

My point is this...next time someone sees injustice done to somebody no matter what the color of their skin...

Do not go lecture them about how they should behave or feel.

Instead...its probably best to go lecture the person that caused the problem...hold them accountable for their action regardless to the color of their skin.

Like I said before...racial sterotypying, racial slurs or any kind of racial violence towards me or my family...

I've dealt with it and I wasn't polite.

More to the point...since I was a kid in seeing that bully get beat badly...

nobody deserves that to happen to them just because of the color of their skin, gender or sexual orientation or beliefs...

And to point the finger (making sterotyping comments) at them instead of those committing the crime (causing the problem)...

is a reflection why in my opinion...

Racism will NEVER be resolved...

everybody needs a scapegoat.

Also, I'm still laughing at the stupid suggestion that black women are the ones having 5 kids with 5 women...

When was the last time you visited the ozarks in Missouri or certain trailer parks in Florida.

False generalities of cultures is just a sympton of why racism can never be resolved.

Throw the same stuff back in someone face about their own culture problems...

things get a little more interesting.

As I've hinted...there's family structure problems with white families that occur disaportionate to other cultures...

Therefore...family problems in America isn't just a Black thing as two individuals in this thread have already suggested.

Take care axe and as always...thanks for the conversation...public and via pm in the past.

NihabaAshi
 
Sadly enough, I think racism stems from our built in
human pattern matching mechanism.

In a sense... racism is a natural human tendancy.
Its part of our survival mechanism.

Just my hypothesis.


peace

axeman
 
The problems white familes face in those stereotype examples you gave - the Ozarks and the trailer parks, are likely quite similar. The black communities face similar problems and no one said otherwise, it's the extent of the problems. Or did you forget the title of this thread?

This is not about White racism - it's about getting one's house in order. Or do you think the black man is at the complete mercy of the White man? Do you really have that much contempt and lack of confidence in the black man? Now that's racism.

Pointing the finger at prevailing racist attitudes will do little to nothing to improve those at an economic and social disadvantage.

Do you really think that the readers here are so inexperienced that by referencing a "grad student" you have credentials? Or that ridiculous "bully story". Your personal experiences are banal and trite, and really don't shed any light on the social problems faced by any group save for the terminally mediocre.

Let me translate for you: you're a dope.
 
Quote from slammajamma:

The problems white familes face in those stereotype examples you gave - the Ozarks and the trailer parks, are likely quite similar. The black communities face similar problems and no one said otherwise, it's the extent of the problems. Or did you forget the title of this thread?

This is not about White racism - it's about getting one's house in order. Or do you think the black man is at the complete mercy of the White man? Do you really have that much contempt and lack of confidence in the black man? Now that's racism.

Pointing the finger at prevailing racist attitudes will do little to nothing to improve those at an economic and social disadvantage.

Do you really think that the readers here are so inexperienced that by referencing a "grad student" you have credentials? Or that ridiculous "bully story". Your personal experiences are banal and trite, and really don't shed any light on the social problems faced by any group save for the terminally mediocre.

Let me translate for you: you're a dope.
More...

These words are your very own...

Quote from slammajamma:

Come on, who is having 5 kids with 5 men, all of whom don't are not fathers?

"Whitey keeping us down."

Dereliction and deliquincy is keeping the black man down.

The Korean man, well he is 96% employed. And he can hardly speak English.

Unless the Black community takes responsibility for itself, they won't shuck the yoke of historical oppression.
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Now what did you say again...

"...Or did you forget the title of this thread?"

Take your above quote and then correlate it with your prior quotes and you tell me who has a problem...

its obvious to me and obvious you don't see you have a problem.

You and maxpi started pointing the finger first...I've simply been replying to such and expressing by opinion.

No biggie...ignorance is bliss.

Had you not posted those comments...I wouldn't have had the need to point out how easy it is to point the finger at a scapegoat for something that is occurring in ALL cultures.

America is a lot more advance in its social problems than you seem to want to admit...

You also seem to want to try to bring this thread back on topic now...

To do that...here's a suggestion...don't make comments about the Korean man and don't make suggestions how a black man should behave or act when oppressed...

your comments are starting to fall on mute ears and rightfully so.

I would rather address why those feel the need to oppress and try to resolve that for one simple reason...

Making stupid generalities about one culture as if it doesn't occur in other cultures has been spun so often the past 20 years...

its about as old as converse sneakers on the tennis or basketball court.

Plain simple english...it's out of fashion.

Lets try a different approach because blaming the black man obviously doesn't work.

Take care and that 80's ideology was a long time ago.

By the way...here's a bulletin...the black culture has already started to change and in my opinion its called Black Conservatism...

http://www.google.ca/search?q=Black+Conservatism&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&meta=

when will that change reach the areas addressed in this thread by those that didn't make sterotyping comments...

Only time will tell.

My reference to others is becasue they are the ones that have a different perspective via that of law enforcement or academics while comparing to my personal experience of growing up in such neighborhoods something they didn't experience.

slammajamma...my alias isn't spelled NiBashanihi...

It's NihabaAshi and surely you can come up with a better word than dope :cool:

P.S. Thanks for making the following comments...

The black communities face similar problems and no one said otherwise...
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Actually, you suggested otherwise prior to the above statement and the readers probably saw what I saw...translation complete.

NihabaAshi
 
Quote from NihabaAshi:

Still, the black community has to heal itself of so many defective and delinquint behaviors that plague it, especially in the area of rasing children and creating stable families. Without a stable family, their cycle of missed opportunity will scarcely ever end

This is a hillbilly statement.

If you think minorities (blacks) are the only culture in America with broken families...your misinformed.

....


I think every culture in America has this problem.

We should address this as an issue about all families...

There's been some well documented stories on TV's about this issue and they weren't about just blacks...

My point is this...broken families isn't just a black issue.

....


To do so while ignoring the fact that its a social problem in America and not a culture problem in America would be doing what the media does via exploiting a piece of information.
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NA, you seem a bit too eager to dismiss any suggestions that inequalities between black and white America may be based on something other than racial discrimination.

A quick check on the census.gov site and I whipped up the following stats.

Percentage of Parent/Child situations (ie, 'households') headed by single mothers:

Whites 21%
Blacks 54%
Hispanics 28%

Percentage of persons over the age of 15 who never married or are divorced:

Whites 36%
Blacks 55%

A quick check on Bureau of Justice Stats and I've got these:

Homicide offenders 1976-2000

Blacks 51.5%

(Blacks as a percentage of total US population: 12%)



I certainly don't want to be accused of "exploiting" these statistics but I must admit I find your attempt to divorce them from cultural influences seems rather rash and illogical.
 
Quote from spect8or:

NA, you seem a bit too eager to dismiss any suggestions that inequalities between black and white America may be based on something other than racial discrimination.

A quick check on the census.gov site and I whipped up the following stats.

Percentage of Parent/Child situations (ie, 'households') headed by single mothers:

Whites 21%
Blacks 54%
Hispanics 28%

Percentage of persons over the age of 15 who never married or are divorced:

Whites 36%
Blacks 55%

A quick check on Bureau of Justice Stats and I've got these:

Homicide offenders 1976-2000

Blacks 51.5%

(Blacks as a percentage of total US population: 12%)



I certainly don't want to be accused of "exploiting" these statistics but I must admit I find your attempt to divorce them from cultural influences seems rather rash and illogical.
More...

Nihabahashi's not even in this country. And this thread is about the people in my home city.
 
Quote from NihabaAshi:



You also seem to want to try to bring this thread back on topic now...

To do that...here's a suggestion...don't make comments about the Korean man and don't make suggestions how a black man should behave or act when oppressed...

[/B]
More...


I don't think slamma was advising blacks how to act when oppressed -- not that there would be anything wrong with him doing so, mind you -- rather he was explaining the causes of social problems faced by blacks in America in terms that had nothing to do with oppression.
 
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