Near death experiences
- Thread starter aquarian1
- Start date
Baron
ET Founder
I have watched countless near-death experience videos including the one you posted. The amount of information that many of them have in common is pretty incredible.
The problem is that I have never seen a single one recounting an experience that aligns with Biblical teachings, meaning that there's no eternal damnation, no devil, no heaven with streets of gold or mansions, and no mention of seeing saints or apostles.
The problem is that I have never seen a single one recounting an experience that aligns with Biblical teachings, meaning that there's no eternal damnation, no devil, no heaven with streets of gold or mansions, and no mention of seeing saints or apostles.
Why is that a problem?
Baron
ET Founder
It's only a problem if you are a believer in biblical teachings and have very specific expectations of what lies beyond.
I have not posted many NDE - though some I have watched to recount the things you mentioned (biblical). I have become a bit worn-out by the attacks of the slow moving fishermen, so it takes energy from me on what I post - making me (and I'm) sure many others - the unseen and unheard and I post less - knowing that I will get attacks instead of discussion.
In any case, under testimonies, this gentleman, Amir shared his NDE which includes both a visit to hell, to heaven, his guardian angel, and meeting Jesus.
https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/testimonies-jesus.374608/page-2#post-5870708
For those who listen to it I should mention that Islam believes:
1. Jesus in not the 'son" of God
2. Jesus did not either die on the cross - nor was he raised from the dead but just ascended straight to heaven. The story goes: Jesus was surrounded in a house and asked someone to volunteer to be transformed to look like him to die on the cross in his place.
3. Any muslim who converts to Christianity faces the death penalty (in a muslim country) and in non-muslim controlled country - excommunication from their family and community - often the father if they are still living at home will throw them out, perhaps beating them first and declare them "dead to me". (Amir speaks of this)
4. Qu'ran teaches that non-believers are nothing more than cattle.
5. Anyone who ridicules - or even questions - Muhammad can be subject to death sentence (such a the Netherlands cartoonist and bombing of the office).
6. There is an afterlife judgement and your good deeds must outweigh your bad deeds to get into heaven - but no muslim knows if they will make it. (Amir speaks of this)
...... (according to another video even x doesn't know if he will get to heaven)
The exception is those who die in Jihad - they are guaranteed to go straight to heaven will get 100 virgins - who miraculously become virgins again and the virility to have sex with them all without getting tired, keep their wives and sex slaves, etc.
There is much more, but these points are only to give some knowledge so that one can emphasize how amazing this man's experience was.
==> A quick ear will notice that he mentions he say things in Hell that he can't share because "they would offend my muslim friends". (point 6??)
People can always argue both ways on ND experiences.
I am more interested in getting clarity on a few questions I personally have and since I already know God exists and Jesus was sent to make it possible for us to escape this world of darkness, and some other important points, I feel my time is better spent in these matters.
If I come across some - that mention - heaven,hell etc are people interested in me posting them?
I am more interested in getting clarity on a few questions I personally have and since I already know God exists and Jesus was sent to make it possible for us to escape this world of darkness, and some other important points, I feel my time is better spent in these matters.
If I come across some - that mention - heaven,hell etc are people interested in me posting them?
Heaven and Hell afterlife
The Babylonian captivity or Babylonian exile is the period in Jewish history during which a large number of Judeans from the ancient Kingdom of Judah were captives in Babylon, the capital city of the Neo-Babylonian Empire, following their defeat in the Jewish–Babylonian War and the destruction of Solomon's Temple in Jerusalem. The event is known to be historical, and is described in the Hebrew Bible in addition to archaeological and extra-biblical sources.
After the Battle of Carchemish in 605 BCE, the Babylonian king Nebuchadnezzar II besieged Jerusalem, which resulted in tribute being paid by the Judean king Jehoiakim.[1] In the fourth year of Nebuchadnezzar II's reign, Jehoiakim refused to pay further tribute, which led to another siege of the city in Nebuchadnezzar II's seventh year (598/597 BCE) that culminated in the death of Jehoiakim and the exile to Babylonia of his successor Jeconiah, his court, and many others; Jeconiah's successor Zedekiah and others were exiled when Nebuchadnezzar II destroyed Jerusalem in his 18th year (587 BCE), and a later deportation occurred in Nebuchadnezzar II's 23rd year (582 BCE). However, the dates, numbers of deportations, and numbers of deportees vary in the several biblical accounts.[2][3]
After the fall of the Neo-Babylonian Empire to the Achaemenid Empire and its founding king Cyrus the Great at the Battle of Opis in 539 BCE, exiled Judeans were permitted by the Persians to return to Judah.[4][5] According to the biblical Book of Ezra, construction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem began c. 537 BCE in the new Persian province of Yehud Medinata. All of these events are considered significant to the developed history and culture of the Jewish people, and ultimately had a far-reaching impact on the development of Judaism.
Archaeological studies have revealed that, although the city of Jerusalem was utterly destroyed, other parts of Judah continued to be inhabited during the period of the exile. Most of the exiled did not return to their homeland, instead travelling westward and northward. Many settled in what is now northern Israel, Lebanon, and Syria. The Iraqi Jewish, Persian Jewish, Georgian Jewish, and Bukharan Jewish communities are believed to derive their ancestry in large part from these exiles; these communities have now largely immigrated to Israel.[6][7]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_captivity
-----------------
Babylonian Captivity, also called Babylonian Exile, the forced detention of Jews in Babylonia following the latter’s conquest of the kingdom of Judah in 598/7 and 587/6 bce. The captivity formally ended in 538 bce, when the Persian conqueror of Babylonia, Cyrus the Great, gave the Jews permission to return to Palestine. Historians agree that several deportations took place (each the result of uprisings in Palestine), that not all Jews were forced to leave their homeland, that returning Jews left Babylonia at various times, and that some Jews chose to remain in Babylonia—thus constituting the first of numerous Jewish communities living permanently in the Diaspora.
Many scholars cite 597 bce as the date of the first deportation, for in that year King Jehoiachin was deposed and apparently sent into exile with his family, his court, and thousands of workers. Others say the first deportation followed the destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadrezzar in 586; if so, the Jews were held in Babylonian captivity for 48 years. Among those who accept a tradition (Jeremiah 29:10) that the exile lasted 70 years, some choose the dates 608 to 538, others 586 to about 516 (the year when the rebuilt Temple was dedicated in Jerusalem).
https://www.britannica.com/event/Babylonian-Captivity
-----------
Jewish sources are conflicted about what happens after we die.
By Rabbi Or N. Rose
The subject of death is treated inconsistently in the Bible, though most often it suggests that physical death is the end of life. This is the case with such central figures as Abraham, Moses, and Miriam.
There are, however, several biblical references to a place called Sheol (cf. Numbers 30, 33). It is described as a region “dark and deep,” “the Pit,” and “the Land of Forgetfulness,” where human beings descend after death. The suggestion is that in the netherworld of Sheol, the deceased, although cut off from God and humankind, live on in some shadowy state of existence.
While this vision of Sheol is rather bleak (setting precedents for later Jewish and Christian ideas of an underground hell) there is generally no concept of judgment or reward and punishment attached to it. In fact, the more pessimistic books of the Bible, such as Ecclesiastes and Job, insist that all of the dead go down to Sheol, whether good or evil, rich or poor, slave or free man (Job 3:11-19).
It goes on...
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/heaven-and-hell-in-jewish-tradition/
=============
From other reading it seems Jews were polytheistic and no heaven and hell concept.
Then they were in exile in Babylon and exposed to Zoroastrianism.
Zoroastrianism was the world's only (at that time) and oldest monotheistic religion.
It has God (mazda)
and his evil Devil counterpart (Azura mazda) .
Heaven and Hell
etc
So when changing from polytheists to monotheists Jews had a problem explaining evil (which preciously was explained with one of their other Gods - Baal, Moleck) which Jews appeased with child sacrifices etc.
If only one God then where did evil come from?
The devil
-------
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Zoroastrianism
The Babylonian captivity or Babylonian exile is the period in Jewish history during which a large number of Judeans from the ancient Kingdom of Judah were captives in Babylon, the capital city of the Neo-Babylonian Empire, following their defeat in the Jewish–Babylonian War and the destruction of Solomon's Temple in Jerusalem. The event is known to be historical, and is described in the Hebrew Bible in addition to archaeological and extra-biblical sources.
After the Battle of Carchemish in 605 BCE, the Babylonian king Nebuchadnezzar II besieged Jerusalem, which resulted in tribute being paid by the Judean king Jehoiakim.[1] In the fourth year of Nebuchadnezzar II's reign, Jehoiakim refused to pay further tribute, which led to another siege of the city in Nebuchadnezzar II's seventh year (598/597 BCE) that culminated in the death of Jehoiakim and the exile to Babylonia of his successor Jeconiah, his court, and many others; Jeconiah's successor Zedekiah and others were exiled when Nebuchadnezzar II destroyed Jerusalem in his 18th year (587 BCE), and a later deportation occurred in Nebuchadnezzar II's 23rd year (582 BCE). However, the dates, numbers of deportations, and numbers of deportees vary in the several biblical accounts.[2][3]
After the fall of the Neo-Babylonian Empire to the Achaemenid Empire and its founding king Cyrus the Great at the Battle of Opis in 539 BCE, exiled Judeans were permitted by the Persians to return to Judah.[4][5] According to the biblical Book of Ezra, construction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem began c. 537 BCE in the new Persian province of Yehud Medinata. All of these events are considered significant to the developed history and culture of the Jewish people, and ultimately had a far-reaching impact on the development of Judaism.
Archaeological studies have revealed that, although the city of Jerusalem was utterly destroyed, other parts of Judah continued to be inhabited during the period of the exile. Most of the exiled did not return to their homeland, instead travelling westward and northward. Many settled in what is now northern Israel, Lebanon, and Syria. The Iraqi Jewish, Persian Jewish, Georgian Jewish, and Bukharan Jewish communities are believed to derive their ancestry in large part from these exiles; these communities have now largely immigrated to Israel.[6][7]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_captivity
-----------------
Babylonian Captivity, also called Babylonian Exile, the forced detention of Jews in Babylonia following the latter’s conquest of the kingdom of Judah in 598/7 and 587/6 bce. The captivity formally ended in 538 bce, when the Persian conqueror of Babylonia, Cyrus the Great, gave the Jews permission to return to Palestine. Historians agree that several deportations took place (each the result of uprisings in Palestine), that not all Jews were forced to leave their homeland, that returning Jews left Babylonia at various times, and that some Jews chose to remain in Babylonia—thus constituting the first of numerous Jewish communities living permanently in the Diaspora.
Many scholars cite 597 bce as the date of the first deportation, for in that year King Jehoiachin was deposed and apparently sent into exile with his family, his court, and thousands of workers. Others say the first deportation followed the destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadrezzar in 586; if so, the Jews were held in Babylonian captivity for 48 years. Among those who accept a tradition (Jeremiah 29:10) that the exile lasted 70 years, some choose the dates 608 to 538, others 586 to about 516 (the year when the rebuilt Temple was dedicated in Jerusalem).
https://www.britannica.com/event/Babylonian-Captivity
-----------
Jewish sources are conflicted about what happens after we die.
By Rabbi Or N. Rose
The subject of death is treated inconsistently in the Bible, though most often it suggests that physical death is the end of life. This is the case with such central figures as Abraham, Moses, and Miriam.
There are, however, several biblical references to a place called Sheol (cf. Numbers 30, 33). It is described as a region “dark and deep,” “the Pit,” and “the Land of Forgetfulness,” where human beings descend after death. The suggestion is that in the netherworld of Sheol, the deceased, although cut off from God and humankind, live on in some shadowy state of existence.
While this vision of Sheol is rather bleak (setting precedents for later Jewish and Christian ideas of an underground hell) there is generally no concept of judgment or reward and punishment attached to it. In fact, the more pessimistic books of the Bible, such as Ecclesiastes and Job, insist that all of the dead go down to Sheol, whether good or evil, rich or poor, slave or free man (Job 3:11-19).
It goes on...
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/heaven-and-hell-in-jewish-tradition/
=============
From other reading it seems Jews were polytheistic and no heaven and hell concept.
Then they were in exile in Babylon and exposed to Zoroastrianism.
Zoroastrianism was the world's only (at that time) and oldest monotheistic religion.
It has God (mazda)
and his evil Devil counterpart (Azura mazda) .
Heaven and Hell
etc
So when changing from polytheists to monotheists Jews had a problem explaining evil (which preciously was explained with one of their other Gods - Baal, Moleck) which Jews appeased with child sacrifices etc.
If only one God then where did evil come from?
The devil
-------
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Zoroastrianism
Last edited:
Baron
ET Founder
That's a pretty big assumption you're making. You might want to start off by asking why the name Jesus wasn't even his actual real name. It was literally made up 1,600 years after he died. His real name was Yeshua, which literally translates into Joshua in English. Christians throughout the ages have been taught that the Bible is the infallible word of God that is without error, not even realizing that the name of the primary character is completely fabricated out of thin air.
Don't be bustin' my magical thinking bubble !
Bill Barr's skit on LDS and his own Christian beliefs sum it up pretty good.