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Near Death Experiences (NDE's)
- Thread starter ShoeshineBoy
- Start date
Quote from ShoeshineBoy:
You're right it's interesting, but again how does one account for the mental lucidity and the OOB experiences of many NDErs?
Obviously we don't have enough information to account for it. In the same way, we can't account for many other phenomena involving the brain - it is a little-understood organ, due to its huge complexity.
I think what many sceptics object to is the immediate assumption that this in some way amounts to evidence of the afterlife or spiritual life separate from the body. IMO that line of argument is no different from witch doctors and shamen saying that fire was a deity, exploiting the fact that people at that time did not understand combustion.
You also pose what I call the "question fallacy". I.e. you ask a question, and the fact that we do not know the answer is somehow supposed to be evidence in favour of your particular belief. Of course if a sceptic asks a question about your belief, which cannot be answered, then this does not shake your belief at all - a curious double standard.
To clarify - just because we do not understand something scientifically or otherwise, does not mean it is spiritual, religious, mystical, or anything else. This goes for NDEs, hallucinations, dreams, subconscious inferences & coincidences (e.g. asking about the brother's foot, anticipating a phone call before it is placed), the origins of life and the universe, the aesthetic appeal of nature, and so on. Imagine if someone 3000 years ago had said "ah, but how do you account for the existence of the wind? And all that thunder and lightning, that cannot be explained by your science. Clearly it must be the work of god!" That is what you are doing now, except because we now understand wind and weather patterns to some degree, you fall back on other unknown and under-researched areas. It is pure sophistry.
Quote from ShoeshineBoy:
that's three people on the thread who believe they have had things happen to them that possibly cannot be explained by simple materialism...
Maybe that partially accounts for your willingness to accept that which is inscrutable and faith-based. You regard the materialist angle as simple when in fact it is complex.
Quote from dgabriel:
Maybe that partially accounts for your willingness to accept that which is inscrutable and faith-based. You regard the materialist angle as simple when in fact it is complex.
Absolutely. I have said several times that my beliefs are not based primarilly on science - although I believe theism is supported well by science - but on both faith and the spiritual/supernatural.
Quote from Cutten:
Obviously we don't have enough information to account for it. In the same way, we can't account for many other phenomena involving the brain - it is a little-understood organ, due to its huge complexity.
I
,,,,
Clearly it must be the work of god!" That is what you are doing now, except because we now understand wind and weather patterns to some degree, you fall back on other unknown and under-researched areas. It is pure sophistry.
That's great - I respect your viewpoint. My whole point in all of these threads is to show that those who believe in the supernatural/spiritual do have their reasons. You may not think that they're that solid and that's fine. Again, I can respect your coming from a different angle.
But I think that many of the materialists think that those who believe in the continuation of the soul and an afterlife have absolutely no reasons for their belief. I am simply saying that there is much to discuss and think about, that is it's not as patently obvious as some of the materialist posters like to assume.
And, actually, I try to ask questions so as not to be too pushy not to be a logician. Again, I'm not offereing this as proof, just as something more important to talk about besides the weather!