National debt and working Americans

F

FireWalker

$18 trillion in debt.
~180 million working Americans.

That is $100,000 each.
Face value of a Treasury bond = $100,000.


I wonder if the serial number on the bond correlates to your birth certificate.

So, which bond-holder holds your bond?



FYI, if you earn $60k/year, that = 6 Treasury Notes ($10k each). So, for you to get a raise to $70k, your "owner" will need to purchase another T-note (or win it in a bet).
 
How many working Americans are there on the day Congress decides to raise the "debt-ceiling"?

Well, if there are 190 million, then they multiply times $100,000 and set the "debt-ceiling".
 
So, if you ever want to know how many "taxpayers" aka "bondpayers" aka slaves there are in America, all you have to do is:

National debt / $100,000 = # of taxpayers/bondpayers/slaves.
 
Humpy said:
What happens when China recalls its debt ?
Is there anything left in Fort Knox ?
More...
US debt is not callable (no put option). The only options China has are :

1. Sell the US bond to someone else.
2. Wait till the US bond matures.

What most people don't realize is that in either case China is then faced with the problem of doing something with US$ cash they received from either of the above options. Again they basically have two options:

A. Trade the US$ for another currency with someone else (pass the buck).
B. Buy US products and import them into China.

The only time USA is impacted negatively is if option 2 is combined with option B. This option actually would stimulate the US economy, though US taxes would have to rise to make up for the money the US government lost when the bonds were redeemed and not reinvested and only in the unlikely event that no other foreign investors will buy a similar amount of new US bonds.

In short if China ever tries to "recall" its debt, the worst case scenario is that US workers would be working overtime, but most of their extra overtime pay would be taxed away by the US government. Working class folks would have higher net take home pay (but would also be working longer hours), the rich would have lower after tax income (because of the progressive nature of the higher taxes they would pay proportionately more of the higher taxes).

It follows that working class Americans have nothing nothing to fear from US foreign debt, while the rich have some cause for worry.
 
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Is most of the huge US debt re-payable at a fixed rate or do rates move with international rates ?
If it is the latter then that is a huge mount of extra money to repay if rates rise.

I don't think tax rates are likely to rise much for the rich as they ( in the US particularly ) have the levers of power and are unlikely to tax themselves more. It would be an election loser too.
 
EnergyTrader said:
US debt is not callable (no put option). The only options China has are :

1. Sell the US bond to someone else.
2. Wait till the US bond matures.

What most people don't realize is that in either case China is then faced with the problem of doing something with US$ cash they received from either of the above options. Again they basically have two options:

A. Trade the US$ for another currency with someone else (pass the buck).
B. Buy US products and import them into China.

The only time USA is impacted negatively is if option 2 is combined with option B. This option actually would stimulate the US economy, though US taxes would have to rise to make up for the money the US government lost when the bonds were redeemed and not reinvested and only in the unlikely event that no other foreign investors will buy a similar amount of new US bonds.

In short if China ever tries to "recall" its debt, the worst case scenario is that US workers would be working overtime, but most of their extra overtime pay would be taxed away by the US government. Working class folks would have higher net take home pay (but would also be working longer hours), the rich would have lower after tax income (because of the progressive nature of the higher taxes they would pay proportionately more of the higher taxes).

It follows that working class Americans have nothing nothing to fear from US foreign debt, while the rich have some cause for worry.
More...
Great point, its frustrating to see these guys with limited understanding of the differences between micro and macro economics trying to treat national debt like personal credit card debt or holding this vague but persistent belief that whoever holds U.S. bonds somehow now "owns" 'murica.
 
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