NatGas: Belarus threatens to cut off gas to Western Europe

[breadcrum]

Ha, no way, I have to strongly disagree with you on this. I have a large number of middle Eastern friends here in Canada and most Persians who came to Canada with a Master's degree run circles around comparable Germans in terms of math and engineering or accounting skill level. By the way, those degrees are fully recognized by Canadian, US, Australian, New Zealand academic institutions. The credentials and course content is evaluated and accordingly accepted or rejected. I also know of Germans who came to Canada and did not get all their German university courses transferred because they did not meet the requirements of the curriculum here. That happens in most developed countries. Its especially tough to have professional designations such as CPA recognized because of different accounting standards.

But broad generalizations definitely do not reflect the real world regarding educational credentials and standards.

Education level is largely irrelevant as it depends on the quality. Plenty of university graduates in Africa and Middle East, their level is that of an European high school or below. That's why most countries don't recognize those either.

 

[breadcrum]

1. Any sources that back up that Middle Eastern migrants depend more on social benefits than Germans, for example?
2. Yes they have on average more kids than Germans, else what's the point to let any of them into our countries
3. Crime...debatable. You might be right on that one and it is a tough issue. But I am not sure from a top bureaucratic level whether it makes sense to exclude an entire region because average crime levels of a certain immigrant group is perhaps 5% or so higher than of the average local community
4. Food in Germany or Poland? Sure, if you have seen nothing else in the world then any German or Polish food is awesome. When you have travelled the world you will learn to appreciate diversity and the rich food culture of Latin America, Asia, Middle East aside Western cuisine. After all taste is subjective, anyone can choose to chew on a Polish sausage for the rest of his life. Nobody keeps you from doing that. Most people who appreciate diversity enjoy, however, a more diverse and richer food culture that includes cuisine from various regions.

See, I am totally against opening the flood gates and allow uncontrolled immigration. Huge mistakes have been made in the past in Germany, for example. But what I have learned over time from life in Canada is that bringing in educated migrants who have squeaky clean criminal records benefits a nation way more than letting in some white collar criminals who bring in tons of money that nobody can trace back where it came from and who do not work, do not contribute, and do not pay taxes. The former benefit a society a million times more than the latter.

On average Middle Eastern migrants in Europe are far more likely to rely on benefits, have more kids, far more likely to be involved in crime. That's just the statistics, I'll take that any time over your opinion.
Polish girls can be extremely beautiful and their food is pretty great as well. You're completely clueless.

 

[breadcrum]

I do not mind fascists, racists, leftists, rightists, whatever. But I have a huge disrespect for bullshit and I usually engage with those who know how to respectfully debate even when things get heated at times. Above all else, I seek to engage with people who back up their opinions and views with logical lines of reasoning. JSOP does not strike me as such, but @d08 appears like a reasonable person despite us not seeing eye to eye on this issue...

Breadcrum, you're new here. I was not long ago. Please note, we have in our midst a few fascists and nationalists and JSOP is a leading figure, although a few would beg to differ to take the mantle. Arguing with them is an absolute waste of energy. Let them bark and watch the butterflies.

 

[d08]

Let me try to be real simple. To me, nationalists are losers. They're people who can't compete, can't value add and don't contribute. The only thing they think they have is some natural right to the land they were born on, a fluke of life. And if they hate, it's because they've got nothing else.

I'm not a nationalist, never have been. But "let's accept everyone unconditionally" is a dumb idea and always has been. I'm for moderate immigration from countries that integrate well. Most Muslims don't, they don't adopt the local customs and thus don't integrate, that results in large ghettos where they blame the locals for not accepting them.

 

[d08]

Ha, no way, I have to strongly disagree with you on this. I have a large number of middle Eastern friends here in Canada and most Persians who came to Canada with a Master's degree run circles around comparable Germans in terms of math and engineering or accounting skill level. By the way, those degrees are fully recognized by Canadian, US, Australian, New Zealand academic institutions. The credentials and course content is evaluated and accordingly accepted or rejected. I also know of Germans who came to Canada and did not get all their German university courses transferred because they did not meet the requirements of the curriculum here. That happens in most developed countries. Its especially tough to have professional designations such as CPA recognized because of different accounting standards.

But broad generalizations definitely do not reflect the real world regarding educational credentials and standards.

Then why are their countries such crap. I've heard of Middle Easterners here in Europe and they're alright but they are the ones who have integrated well. They also came with degrees and through legal procedures - none of them were attacking border guards and cutting barbed wire, very different types of people.

 

[Nobert]

I'm not a nationalist, never have been. But "let's accept everyone unconditionally" is a dumb idea and always has been. I'm for moderate immigration from countries that integrate well. Most Muslims don't, they don't adopt the local customs and thus don't integrate, that results in large ghettos where they blame the locals for not accepting them.

Yup.

There are multiple examples around the world, where nations did not had a best geographical location, with enemies surounding, yet, they build this oasis.

So thus it proves that it's not about the place, but about the people that lives in there.

Those migrants come to well established communities, and as you just mentioned, start to create a ,,country" within a country.

Riots take place & burning tires with small business destroyed. Multiple examples as well.



Why do those people have to migrate if they're so hard working. So intelligent. So beautiful.

Nice story, of why they should be welcomed with arms open, but one does not have to be a nationalist, to smell a bs & see the true colors.

A blackmail by using people.

 

[breadcrum]

I think we two fully agree on this issue. Controlled immigration where we let into our countries those who benefit our society is beneficial. Uncontrolled immigration and just opening the floodgates is not beneficial at all. Not sure why this exchange got so out of hand, perhaps because there were individuals involved who painted every immigrant with the same brush.

The problem that some here seemingly have is a lack of comprehension that governments and its people are not always the same. I think we can agree that there are highly educated and intelligent people even living under despotic regimes. Those are the people who want to leave and those are the ones we embrace with open arms.

Then why are their countries such crap. I've heard of Middle Easterners here in Europe and they're alright but they are the ones who have integrated well. They also came with degrees and through legal procedures - none of them were attacking border guards and cutting barbed wire, very different types of people.

 

[Nobert]

Not sure why this exchange got so out of hand, perhaps because there were individuals involved who painted every immigrant with the same brush.

Or perhaps because you started like this :

Guess what, those Syrian and Iranian refugees are already more highly educated than the average American. Funny, eh?

In a thread that talks about uncontroled emigration, you stated your opinion as a fact.

Besides, one, that makes zero sense. Away from war times/zones (those people are not from there)
a highly educated individual as you say, will find other ways to leave his country.

Da hell, say that i want to move into US, - does that mean that i should go through the swamps of FL (good luck with that) or the desert tunels of Mexico ?

There are a civilized way to do so.

Figure out you arguments before picking up a ,,fight".

 

[breadcrum]

You are conflating issues and put words in my mouth. I never talked about mass migrations. I always referred to controlled immigration when I made my points. It's probably you who misunderstood even my first post and assumed from the get go that I was a proponent of mass migration. I never was not am and never suggested such. So, I guess at the end we are all sitting a lot closer together on issues than we initially thought.

Or perhaps because you started like this :



In a thread that talks about uncontroled emigration, you stated your opinion as a fact.

Besides, one, that makes zero sense. Away from war times/zones (those people are not from there)
a highly educated individual as you say, will find other ways to leave his country.

Da hell, say that i want to move into US, - does that mean that i should go through the swamps of FL (good luck with that) or the desert tunels of Mexico ?

There are a civilized way to do so.

Figure out you arguments before picking up a ,,fight".

 

[albion]

Name us one empire that fell because of over migration and migrants who destroyed the country. Just one.

Mayan, Incan, Native American... there are others.