I never said you were incorrect about something, just fighting hard to support the legitimacy of NADEX.... If I said IB sucks balls and is a rip off, does that make people who use IB brokers lose money or have issues? But you are really digging in to defend Nadax... EVEN THOUGH you had CFTC complaints against them?!?!
Nadex 20 & 5 binaries
- Thread starter bigspeculate
- Start date
I never said you were incorrect about something, just fighting hard to support the legitimacy of NADEX.... If I said IB sucks balls and is a rip off, does that make people who use IB brokers lose money or have issues? But you are really digging in to defend Nadax... EVEN THOUGH you had CFTC complaints against them?!?!
There are no increasing returns toward adoption for IB (and they do suck balls!). There are for Nadex. One of the big problems for any new exchange is liquidity and liquidity begets liquidity, so the more people who trade there the more valuable it becomes. Incidentally, the more people who trade there the more the legitimate gripes that southall and I have go away. The more people who trade through IB the longer you wait for their inane customer service reps and the further down the barrel they have to go to hire them.
What you really have to ask is why southall et al are digging in their heels with the ever more desperate attempts to disparage them? I've laid all my cards on the table, as I've said over and over in this thread and others, they've got some flaws and I've been perfectly honest in pointing those out. Given that, it's frankly pretty unfair to cast me as suspicious while giving these other guys a free pass, don't you think? I even answered the question as to who I worked for and my lack of a conflict of interest (of course I could be lying, but again nothing I've done or said over the past couple years would indicate that) while he refused to do so. To be clear I don't think he's a shill just like I clearly am not. It's just a bit illuminating how the rock thrower gets free reign while the guy who's being intellectually honest is cast with suspicion, don't you think?
That's why I reported him. He was actively recruiting people to trade Nadex and be "market makers." I think they pay him or he has an incentive to recruit more gamblers to play Nadex. Definitely red flags all over.
IMO Nadex is not purely a gambling outfit. All trading involves risk. The markets are all a form of gambling. There is no perfect science in the markets. What's funny is, guys that trade the markets talk so much about historical performances and place so much emphasis on the charts and technical analysis of the past months or year, then clearly state that past performance in not indicative of future results. Bottom line...can you make money? No matter what you are trading. Too much talk about trading and little consistently profitable trading. Some traders have all the book sense. Know all the terms. But can't make money.
Why are you talking about performance? We're talking about if Nadex is a bucketshop....whether people make money or not is irrelevant and non of your business. Trades executed on Nadex have no implication in the open market. Nadex is a bucketshop. That's all we're arguing here. Whether Joe, Mark, and Jane Doe make 10$ or losing 30k in the markets is really non of your business.
Hey Sig,
For what its worth, I agree with you. I've been following in particular the stock indexes on NADEX.
The much lauded S&P Mini is still too big for me, and I've been looking for an alternative to ETFs. Sure SPY is fine for trading during normal market hours with a PDT account, but sucks during premarket. Despite that I haven't funded the NADEX account because of the wide bid/ask spreads.
But did you notice something changed in January? The spreads have become noticeably tighter. The daily binaries for S&P500 and DOW30 are consistently being offered for 5 bucks. Not bad.
The pseudo-futures "bull spreads" are also looking better. Today I'm seeing 2/10 point bid/ask spread on the S&P pseudo-future. Hey that's as good as the S&P Mini with 1/5th the risk!!! Hope NADEX can keep this up.
I think I'll try trading with these IG/NADEX guys and see how it goes.
Cheers!
Nadex changed their rules effective Dec 19th to add a wide spread surcharge which incentivizes the market makers to lower their spreads. The full notice was:
"On December 2, 2016, North American Derivatives Exchange, Inc. (“Nadex”, the “Exchange”) submitted to the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (the “Commission”), pursuant to Section 5c(c)(1) of the Commodity Exchange Act, as amended (“Act”), and section §40.6(a) of the regulations promulgated by the Commission under the Act (the “Regulations”), its intent to amend its Market Maker fees to include a “Wide Spread Surcharge”. Under the new structure, Market Makers would be assessed a 50% surcharge on the average per lot profit, in a given month, above $2.00. The purpose of the surcharge is to encourage narrower bid-offer spreads on Market Maker quotes to further promote quality trading opportunities for all participants, including increased liquidity in the market and a lower cost of trading for market participants, both of which should encourage increased overall trading activity, as well as greater competition among Market Makers. This surcharge would allow Market Makers to continue using current trading strategies if they so choose, or to narrow the bid-ask spreads they are making to avoid the additional fee and encourage increased trading on the exchange. Absent Commission objection, this submission will become effective December 19, 2016."
https://www.nadex.com/notices/2016/nadex-self-certification-amend-market-maker-fees
I also noticed another market maker came in around the first of the year. They appear to be gone again now, but they might have influenced the other two MM to adjust their algorithms and they never adjusted them back.
Thanks for the info. You say the third market maker went away. That might explain what happened to the Nikkei225. Earlier this year it started trading with a $7 spread, almost as good as Osaka Nikkei Mini. But now its back to $13 -- not tradeable in my opinion. So attracting market makers seems to be key.
Also, incoming CFTC chairman, Giancario, apparently wants to incorporate some financial innovation he's seen in the UK. They're further ahead on OTC market regulation than we are. What I'd really love to see is a full up FOREX/CFD exchange like LMAX implemented here. Sort of a modern electronic version of the old Mid-AM exchange in Chicago years ago (catered to retail traders vs institutional).
You don't need an account, they post the daily time and sales here - https://www.nadex.com/market-data for historical data starting with the previous trading day.