My theory that hft traders are scum, proved and documented

[EPrado]

Quote from Mav88:

At least HFT is a computer on an electronic platform.

People who bitch about that must not remember the things that would happen in trading pits to retail orders. Long ago I tried trading OJ futures via the pit, the things those guys would do with your market orders could only be described as financial rape.

Yeah...before electronic trading we had to deal with orders going to the pit. The Sp,Bonds, and bigger markets were fine with minimal slippage. But like you said....try sending a big order down to the OJ or Coffee pit. Coffee was hilarious. If you complained the guy on the other end of the phone , he would threaten to break your legs.

I just don't get all the bitching. Back in the days of the specialists similar stuff went on. God forbid you put a buy order in as the specialist was getting a a lot of big orders. You would sit...wait....watch him spread the stock out a point higher, print everyone up there....then watch it drop a bit. Canceling your order was near impossible. You had to sit there and wait to see how bad you were gonna get it.

These same whiners today who cry about a few cents slippage wouldn't last a week back then.

 

[johnnyqpublic]

Quote from Mav88:

At least HFT is a computer on an electronic platform. It is somewhat of a known.

People who bitch about that must not remember the things that would happen in trading pits to retail orders. Long ago I tried trading OJ futures via the pit, the things those guys would do with your market orders could only be described as financial rape.

To be fair, computers can just as easily be programmed to commit "financial rape", and to do so consistently.

 

[Mav88]

...but it is the not the same as some pit guy trying figure out how badly to screw you.

I view HFT just the same as I view all other traders. The algos are no different than some other mechanical trader trying to get my cash. Would much rather have an electronic stop.

 

[stock777]

you punks dont remember that you used to be able to actually get a good fill in the right direction, instead of the hft scum taking out 5 levels before you can even blink.

 

[EPrado]

Quote from stock777:

you punks dont remember that you used to be able to actually get a good fill in the right direction, instead of the hft scum taking out 5 levels before you can even blink.

Again...you need adapt and quit whining. Obviously if you are buying into a run-up you are gonna have slippage. That was the case for guys who traded 20 yrs ago.

Instead of blaming everyone else for your failure try and figure it out. If not continue to lose money and whine about it.

 

[EPrado]

Quote from Mav88:

...but it is the not the same as some pit guy trying figure out how badly to screw you.

I view HFT just the same as I view all other traders. The algos are no different than some other mechanical trader trying to get my cash. Would much rather have an electronic stop.

The pit slippage was MUCH worse. I traded the Nikkei futures back in the early 90's for a hedge fund. Was only pit trading back then. Holy crap did the floor guys over there screw with prices. These guys would fill you at prices that didn't even show up on time and sales. If you bought into a run up or sold into a sell off you got screwed.

Again...nothing really different than todays trading.

 

[Mav88]

you punks dont remember that you used to be able to actually get a good fill in the right direction, instead of the hft scum taking out 5 levels before you can even blink.

what's good? I can remember some phone calls quite well:

"I got filled at WHAT??? WTF??"

 

[galvinlee888]

Quote from EPrado:

The pit slippage was MUCH worse. I traded the Nikkei futures back in the early 90's for a hedge fund. Was only pit trading back then. Holy crap did the floor guys over there screw with prices. These guys would fill you at prices that didn't even show up on time and sales. If you bought into a run up or sold into a sell off you got screwed.

Again...nothing really different than todays trading.

HFT is smarter than human, the larger you trade, the bigger they will screw you.

In pit if you are smart and experience enough, you can get away from the MM.

You can't hide from HFT as they are linked and eye everywhere, i repeat again, Linked and eye everywhere.

 

[EPrado]

Quote from Mav88:

what's good? I can remember some phone calls quite well:

"I got filled at WHAT??? WTF??"

Yeah. The brokers on The Simex would fill me a few ticks above the high of that time period, then say "the floor will insert a print in time and sales later". Was robbery. But...you dealt with it.

 

[EPrado]

Quote from galvinlee888:

HFT is smarter than human, the larger you trade, the bigger they will screw you.

In pit if you are smart and experience enough, you can get away from the MM.

You can't hide from HFT as they are linked and eye everywhere, i repeat again, Linked and eye everywhere.

I think it matters what mkt/stocks you trade. If you trade SPYS its not a huge deal. But if you are trading AAPL,GOOG,GS then yes....it can be an issue. Thats why traders who know what they are doing don't trade huge size in the high flyers, and load up where there is liquidity.

But yes...computers can trade/react much much faster. Therefore to trade today you have a strategy to deal with it. There has always been a cost/slippage in trading. Pit traders....specialists...HFT computers. There have always been obstacles. This is nothing new.