My Path To Success

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3 years and you finally muster up the balls to trade 1 contract live ?



Scared money is dead money.


Lack of discipline is what it keeping you from doing this with real money and fear is what keeps you on the safety of the sim crutch



If your c2 trading is so successful then why don't you just subscribe to your own system with live money ?










:confused:
 
volente.. this is the first time I've had the CAPITAL to trade 1 contract. Even so, I'm below what I'd like to start with. This is the first time I've had an OPTION to trade my system. As I've said, I've made other people thousands of dollars.

If you read what I wrote, then you will wrote that I did just that. However, I scale in/out of positions. I don't have the capital to trade my system at 100% because I trade up to 5-6 contracts on my account. I didn't know about these issues because my subscribers were taking my signals at full size.

If you read what I wrote then you will have known that I subscribed to my system but because I did not trade at 100% size AND because I was scale in/out that the software was opening positions when I was closing them and I would have been "unaware of it' had I had not looked into it.

I had over 2 days of intense discussions with C2 about the issue. I was not happy with their response which as "it was normal behavior" and so I turned of the auto-trading temporarily.

However.. I had more discussions and if I'm willing to trade 2 contracts then I can autotrade my system provided I only add 1 time. So I will likely turn it back on and trade a max of 2 contracts. I'll have to adjust my trading. However, its important that I do this because I'm not convinced that I can make as much/more from my systems this year then from what i can trading. I may start with 1 contract and just temporarily do away with my scaling.

So, my new plan is to autotrade my system... whether I do that through the C2 autotrading or if I submit direct to market and let the C2 track me: I haven't decided.

It is mostly about the money in the end.

Anyway will be my last post here for at least several months.

Quote from volente_00:

3 years and you finally muster up the balls to trade 1 contract live ?

Scared money is dead money.
Lack of discipline is what it keeping you from doing this with real money and fear is what keeps you on the safety of the sim crutch

If your c2 trading is so successful then why don't you just subscribe to your own system with live money ?

:confused:
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Quote from Lucias:

volente.. this is the first time I've had the CAPITAL to trade 1 contract. Even so, I'm below what I'd like to start with. This is the first time I've had an OPTION to trade my system. As I've said, I've made other people thousands of dollars.

If you read what I wrote, then you will wrote that I did just that. However, I scale in/out of positions. I don't have the capital to trade my system at 100% because I trade up to 5-6 contracts on my account. I didn't know about these issues because my subscribers were taking my signals at full size.

If you read what I wrote then you will have known that I subscribed to my system but because I did not trade at 100% size AND because I was scale in/out that the software was opening positions when I was closing them and I would have been "unaware of it' had I had not looked into it.

I had over 2 days of intense discussions with C2 about the issue. I was not happy with their response which as "it was normal behavior" and so I turned of the auto-trading temporarily.

However.. I had more discussions and if I'm willing to trade 2 contracts then I can autotrade my system provided I only add 1 time. So I will likely turn it back on and trade a max of 2 contracts. I'll have to adjust my trading. However, its important that I do this because I'm not convinced that I can make as much/more from my systems this year then from what i can trading. I may start with 1 contract and just temporarily do away with my scaling.

So, my new plan is to autotrade my system... whether I do that through the C2 autotrading or if I submit direct to market and let the C2 track me: I haven't decided.

It is mostly about the money in the end.

Anyway will be my last post here for at least several months.
More...



You do realize DISCIPLINE plays a key part in saving up trading capital
 
I'm contemplating the possibility of closing my systems down. I have 2 of the top ranked futures systems at C2. Both of my systems have been in the "hot futures" list for about 6 months now.. SOLID.. I have 1 of the longest tracked top ranked systems.

However.. I'm not hitting my goals. There are guys making big bucks off crappy Forex systems but I'm just barely breaking even. I'm definitely frustrated. I had hoped I could use my experience to get investor capital or build a subscriber base that would get me a bigger account.

I was making a trader more then I make for a living.. or as much and getting peanuts and he still complained. It even makes it hard for me to sell myself when I have to admit that how cheaply I'm selling my signals for. I mean to a bigger investor.

As for prop firms, I have a good experience with them because I was offered full funding by one -- partly based on my record but probably more based on insistence. It really isn't feasible to do this though because I'd need at least a year of savings saved up and then if I had that then it wouldn't make sense anyway.

I'm about the point to close down everything and just trade my 6k account. It takes a HUGE amount of work managing a system over what it would for me to trade my own account..

I'm "always" on the C2 management trying to make sure everything is recorded properly and running right --whether it hurts or helps me. Its a big stress in itself and its not making me enough.

I've been a real fool for not trading my own capital sooner. But I thought.. I could make some money.. develop a track record...

All that was a waste of time.. Trading my own account would have made more.

So, this is my advice... to any new trader.

1. Forget about building a track record. They are worthless. If you want to sell crap then the newbs will never be impressed by a realistic track record and if you want to trade OPM then it won't help you either..

2. Get an account and make money or a second job. The main thing is make money.

Also.. don't say anything about real money, play money, hypothetical, etc.. I've talked to these firms. It doesn't mean anything if you didn't make 1 million the last year. They aren't looking for someone who is as good or better then they are.. they are looking for new profit centers.

You will be placed into 1 of 2 groups

A. Didn't make 1 million
B. Made 1 million

That's it. Don't believe the BS about prop firms. Most are just brokers. If they dont' fund you 100% they are brokers. If you don't pay a salary then you're probably not going to be able to make it work, anyway... The real ones will do what I say.. you will be placed into group A or B. They don't recognize talent. That's not what they are about.. they're just a business, like any other.. probably worse.

Okay.. I probably won't close my systems down but my main goal is to get live asap. I've decided to change my methods and not scale in/out. I won't be able to add size/push my winners to start with because I'll be overleveraged. This is going to be hard to avoid doing because its what I feel gives me a big edge... But I have to start somewhere. Right now I'm having more bugs with C2 interface... hopefully we get those worked out over next week and I'll be live.

I'll probably give it 1 month at c2 autotrading.. if I feel I'm giving up too much edge by using their autotrading systems then I may go direct to market and see how that works.
 
I mean... yes I think it is kinda pointless for me to keep restating the obvious: Forex systems are making good money wheres futures systems aren't making a dime.

Now I am planning to go live with my futures trading but that's my problem.. I'm too good. I've got this stupid believe that performance means anything. It doesn't. Not in this world.. look around.. the market is stupid as it gets... any market... every market.

I keep repeating the obvious.. I'm not going to make money offering futures systems. But you see I like to trade the es.. to be the best..

I don't have my eye 100% on the ball of making money. It reminds me when I was programming.. I kept trying to improve my performance.. kept training.. training. I was fed a load of BS from a psychologist. I was led to believe that everything had to do with my performance. I got my first job and was way better then those in field. ONLY when I focused on how people perceive others did I become successful... only when I focused on selling.

This is why it is hard for someone like myself.. honest, hard working, driven to win IN THE MARKETS, and extremely talented to make in the vendoring game. The best vendors have their eye 100% on the ball of sales.. They don't have to concern themselves with trading or trying to stay on top the market. Even the ones who are capable of trading won't do it.. because they know where they make their money. Its like a broker.. you won't see a broker offering to back even a great trader. Why? Its not their business.

Okay, just think about it yourself.. how successful would you be if you trained 100% to be the best salesmen instead of trading.. instead of staying on top of the market. How much do you think you could make? That's my point.
 
Quote from baggerlord:

He predicts with uncanny accuracy. He doesn't need to wait. That's like telling Chuck Norris he needs to pick his battles.
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Good one. I think he's the long lost brother of BoWo.
Everyone knows the best systems aren't sold, so any ranking on those services doesn't tell you where you stand overall.
 
Predictor versusss The Quant

Round 1
The Quant
You think you can trade with me. I've got phds in 8 disciplines/
I hedge in 9 directions and do cointegrations in my mind.. just fine

Round 2
The Predictor
Cointegrations? Punk, I make future revelations. 9 directions..that sounds like 8 too many. I only need 1 to make a profit.

Round3
The Quant
And, I'll sit with my limit orders and fade all those fake revelations.. you probably don't even know ornstien-uhlenbeck from the Flinstones.

Round 4
The Predictor
I'm happy that you give me those good fills.. here let me stuff some more market orders down your throat. What's random to you.. is just me making order.

My name is the Predictor for a reason.. watch your delta.. you don't belong in the markets: you belong in school.

Who Won?!!

Didn't like it? These are pretty funny...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAaE7sJahiw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rE0-ek6MZA&feature=related
 
Okay a little update.. I've adjusted my trading style so that I can trade without requiring scaling in/out and tried to autotrade my discretionary style at C2. These adjustments were required.

I knew that C2 converts the limit orders to markets and I had a target a round number. I knew I could get a cross at 57.25 and assumed if I got a touch at 57 then Id get filled at 57.25 They told me it waited about 3 seconds before going to market. I actually got filled at 57.50. So I slipped 2 ticks.

What they originally told me was wrong.. apparently it waits 10 seconds.

At any rate, I don't have any subscribers on my discretionary system now and the C2 management doesn't seem able or interested to accommodate someone as serious about performance as I am. My subscriber was profitable, he was trading about 100k, and I estimate he made about 12k. Not bad for a few hundred dollars in signals.. not bad for him. A crappy deal for me though.

So, I am debating now the possibility of closing my discretionary system. I now have without a doubt one of the top 2-3 long term tracked futures systems tracked there. But no subscribers.. my conclusion is that there isn't any interest in trading futures systems at these places -- unless you can bring in subscribers from another own connections. Most people using these services only have the capital to trade Forex...

Going forward I have a few options:

A
Trade direct to market and broadcast the signals to my system

B.
Trade direct to market and close system.

C.
Switch to Forex and try to make money that way.

I haven't decided what I will do. I wanted to get live ASAP and so I'm not inclined to take 1-3 months to learn Forex.

What surely doesn't make sense though is for me to continue to handicap myself: forcing myself to trade like a huge institution. I do believe there are fixes that could be applied to make it so that I could get a better performance but C2 management is not interested in that. Heck, even submitting the orders MIT would be better then what I got today. I do think that my system over time will still be profitable even with the improper algorithms. But again it just doesn't make sense for me to handicap myself that way.

Of course, if I have problems getting my fills then I can always try different algorithms. I usually get a cross anyway. I'm not even guaranteed to get the crosses at C2. My other trader was using Trader68 with an 0 second delay to market and he did fine with those settings.

I can always switch to MIT if I have problems with fills. I figure I will give up about 15%-25% from the hypothetical trading direct to market which isn't that bad. Because C2 factors in the sub fees then even if I end up giving up more then I can easily outperform the respectable after-costs performance.

I have to admit the path to success isn't an easy one. I had felt c2 would play an important role in that success. The only way that can happen though is that if I switch to trading Forex or building Forex systems. So, I have to do some deep thought now.. I've been generally more happy when taking my trades with real money even if I'm only trading 1 contract.

But... I'm not meeting my monetary goals. So, I have to think about things.
 
I've decide I will trade direct to market. I will train on the DOM for the next couple weeks on demo until I learn the DOM. I don't see a need to handicap myself anymore.

You know the very ironic thing is that my mentor Gary Smith didn't claim to have any special abilities.. struggled for many years.. Yet, I know that historically my abilities have been amazing and yet I haven't been able to get any funds and only limited interest in my training.

But everyone.. for my abilities.. has only hated me. Okay most people here.. we can look at them like what they are.. ignorant.. trolls. We can write that out. But, I mean the people who REALLY know my abilities.. they really did not like seeing my abilities. Only a couple people really know.. And the odd thing is, the more I demonstrated my abilities.. the more they disliked me.

This is good though. This is good. Throw some more egg at the man who predicts the market... go ahead

Anyway.. now we have a new path. learn the DOM and go to direct to market.. Course is set. I'll broadcast signals to system if possible, if not close it. No biggie.
 
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