My goal is to make at least 30% per month

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I'm not entirely sure that the Simulation is meant to be 100% realistic at the market depth order. It would be pretty tricky to pull off: Make a thinly traded contract realistic at the market depth order AND be using real-world/real-time data.

The reason this is tricky is that your trade in the real world would affect the price in the real world. But this can't be done in a simulator since your bid is not affecting the real world.

I think the Paper Trading / Simulator is meant for a more high-level experience: Basically everything other than transactions that would affect the market.

For example, if you thinly traded XYZ was trading at 100$ and you bought 100,000 of them, the price *SHOULD* go up. But if the quote is being pulled from real time sources the price will NOT go up.

If you are attempting to verify this aspect it is best to either use a live trading account or some very intelligent custom simulation software (i.e., one that tracks tick by tick/order by order history, finds the pattern you want to simulate, then generates a report on what happened if that pattern was caused by ou).

Short answer:
Try trading for real to experience how thinly traded positions are really traded.
 
Making constant profit from forex is not as easy that we think but few traders can do it with their own experience and knowledge.
 
HappyTrader said:
I'm not entirely sure that the Simulation is meant to be 100% realistic at the market depth order. It would be pretty tricky to pull off: Make a thinly traded contract realistic at the market depth order AND be using real-world/real-time data.

The reason this is tricky is that your trade in the real world would affect the price in the real world. But this can't be done in a simulator since your bid is not affecting the real world.

I think the Paper Trading / Simulator is meant for a more high-level experience: Basically everything other than transactions that would affect the market.

For example, if you thinly traded XYZ was trading at 100$ and you bought 100,000 of them, the price *SHOULD* go up. But if the quote is being pulled from real time sources the price will NOT go up.

If you are attempting to verify this aspect it is best to either use a live trading account or some very intelligent custom simulation software (i.e., one that tracks tick by tick/order by order history, finds the pattern you want to simulate, then generates a report on what happened if that pattern was caused by ou).

Short answer:
Try trading for real to experience how thinly traded positions are really traded.
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The issue is not about a thinly traded contract, but wrong Bid/Ask at the top of the orderbook (Level-1 data)...
Like this: you make an official bid, someone is very interessted in your bid and will make the deal, but suddenly you say that you didn't mean your bid seriously and retract...
Such a behaviour violates the common market rules b/c it is practically market manipulation...
 
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I thought some more about futures trading, especially ES. The margin requirement is about $4200 per contract (consisting of 50 options). This seems to me significantly less than with stock options. I think I should further analyse the ES and similar futures options...
 
marsman said:
The issue is not about a thinly traded contract, but wrong Bid/Ask at the top of the orderbook (Level-1 data)...
Like this: you make an official bid, someone is very interessted in your bid and will make the deal, but suddenly you say that you didn't mean your bid seriously and retract...
Such a behaviour violates the common market rules b/c it is practically market manipulation...
More...

It doesn't *quite* work like that (the part of someone is very interested ....). But yes, if you make large number of orders then cancel your orders (and can do it correctly) you can artificially influence the price. This is well documented and discussed many times recently on the news as someone got charged for market manipulation on this.

I don't think that's what you ran into based on my understanding of your example.

Btw, when you see a wide bid/ask, that is almost always indicative of a thinly traded symbol. Unfortunately you were unable to supply us with the symbol/date/time you were trying to trade so we can see if anything else was going on.
 
HappyTrader said:
It doesn't *quite* work like that (the part of someone is very interested ....). But yes, if you make large number of orders then cancel your orders (and can do it correctly) you can artificially influence the price. This is well documented and discussed many times recently on the news as someone got charged for market manipulation on this.

I don't think that's what you ran into based on my understanding of your example.

Btw, when you see a wide bid/ask, that is almost always indicative of a thinly traded symbol. Unfortunately you were unable to supply us with the symbol/date/time you were trying to trade so we can see if anything else was going on.
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It is irrelevant, and I doubt you can change anything afterwards... It's just an experience I made, not that important, it wasn't a big deal, only about 10 contracts...
If there is a bid/offer in the orderbook then it has to be real. But as said, maybe it was a platform issue showing outdated data...
 
marsman said:
It is irrelevant, and I doubt you can change anything afterwards... It's just an experience I made, not that important, it wasn't a big deal, only about 10 contracts...
If there is a bid/offer in the orderbook then it has to be real. But as said, maybe it was a platform issue showing outdated data...
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*Note: You *are* still referring to the simulation right? In which case it may not truly reflect market behavior. Oh, and did it have a 'c' next to it? That could mean that was the close value (so its best guess as it wasn't trading).

When you start working at the microstructure level, the simulator will be less realistic. And you will start to see behavior is not exactly what you would expect it to be as it is far more complicated. There are some good books, videos, and even articles here discussing how the market microstructure works and it's worth reading. That way there will be less frustration in to why your order was not filled or the price suddenly changed, etc. :)
 
@HappyTrader, are you really that dumb by not understanding what I say: IT WAS A PLATFORM ISSUE, MAN!!!
Forget about your market microstructure and thinly traded contracts excuse crap tales...
 
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marsman said:
@HappyTrader, are you really that dumb by not understanding what I say: IT WAS A PLATFORM ISSUE, MAN!!!
Forget about your market microstructure crap tales!
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You blame the platform now? All your comments were about the market data. Market data is not the same as a platform.

I really think you need to take a breather, take a step back, and perhaps bone up on how trading works. Your sudden shift in your entire trading strategy where you were expecting to make 30% monthly based on one trade that did not go your way is a major red flag in your approach to trading.

As for not being polite, that's uncalled for.
 
HappyTrader said:
You blame the platform now? All your comments were about the market data. Market data is not the same as a platform.

I really think you need to take a breather, take a step back, and perhaps bone up on how trading works. Your sudden shift in your entire trading strategy where you were expecting to make 30% monthly based on one trade that did not go your way is a major red flag in your approach to trading.

As for not being polite, that's uncalled for.
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The platform has shown wrong data, ie. it has not updated the quotes.
That was many times written in the postings!
You are talking just BS! My trading is going exactly according to the plan! Just take a look at the recent Account Status...
Ignorant!
 
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