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My Experience at a Prop Firm
- Thread starter pineman
- Start date
Quote from pineman:
Now why as an adult you are bring my mother into this ? ....clearly it is now clear you have no idea what you are talking about...so now your agenda is insults !
This thread has turned into a daycare center and it's my turn to watch the kids. Seriously, ETG was a chop shop, get over it. Let me ask you something pineman, and I think this question will get to the root of all the arguing here. How many times while you were at your prop firm did you buy the high of the day and sell the low of the day? Be honest, that's the real problem isn't it? Come on bro, fess up.
Quote from Maverick74:
This thread has turned into a daycare center and it's my turn to watch the kids. Seriously, ETG was a chop shop, get over it. Let me ask you something pineman, and I think this question will get to the root of all the arguing here. How many times while you were at your prop firm did you buy the high of the day and sell the low of the day? Be honest, that's the real problem isn't it? Come on bro, fess up.
LOL...I don't recall, who the heck is watching HIs and Lows when you are scalping, lol....we were looking for stepping " shorts" . Who said anything about we were position trading...
Again it is clear you have no idea what goes on in these places...it is fair to say you are out of the loop !
I have no issues...I am very well off in the pockets...
Like Istated, I started this thread to warn college grads to stay far away from these types of firms !
Quote from SDticks:
I'm not sure what you find so funny about that edge. The edge was real and lasted for many years. Traders and "real" prop firms made multiple millions for the several years that it lasted. I'll bet this hilarious edge made more money for traders than anything you teach in your boot camp. This still goes on today, it's just out of the reach of prop firms, with major news providers charging 7 figures to automate the econ numbers trade. Someone is still making money on it.
And you know what? Some people actually learned to trade while making millions on hitting econ numbers. It's not bad to get a head start in your bank account while you learn to trade.
Eprado got in at the end of it. I wonder if he would be complaining if he was making free money while learning to trade.
All edges go away or evolve. I just don't see why you laugh at this one and not at shorting nyse stocks on downticks with bullets.
I got in at the end of it? Really? When did I start trading? Please let me know?
The firm which I am talking about had ZERO edge. They thought by having some guy read the #'s as they hit Bloomberg they were ahead of everybody. IS comical. If their plan was so good then why did almost all of their traders lose money or at best be flat at the end of each month? The way it worked was if they "hit" the number then they had a cushion before they pissed it all away throughout the month. (This I guess is that free money you are talking about). Now if they lost on the #, they were screwed. I saw plenty of guys miss the number of hit the wrong side. They were canned/quit soon after.
Please know your facts before you open your trap.
Quote from EPrado:
I got in at the end of it? Really? When did I start trading? Please let me know?
The firm which I am talking about had ZERO edge. They thought by having some guy read the #'s as they hit Bloomberg they were ahead of everybody. IS comical. If their plan was so good then why did almost all of their traders lose money or at best be flat at the end of each month? The way it worked was if they "hit" the number then they had a cushion before they pissed it all away throughout the month. (This I guess is that free money you are talking about). Now if they lost on the #, they were screwed. I saw plenty of guys miss the number of hit the wrong side. They were canned/quit soon after.
Please know your facts before you open your trap.
I have no idea when you started trading. All I meant was that you probably got into the numbers game at the end of it. Why do I think that?
1. I'm guessing you worked for Refco Trading Services (Macfutures) when it opened up in the US - this was at the end of the numbers game
2. You mentioned the bonds having 2-4 handle moves on NFP. This was towards the end of that game.
Please feel free to correct any of my assumptions if I am wrong.
Really I meant no disrespect to you. It's just that strategy your bashing, hitting number releases off of bloomberg, worked for a really long time and made people a lot of money. It used to work for almost all of the significant numbers. No, you were never ahead of everyone, but you were in early enough for people to come in behind you and drive the price up or down significantly from your entry. Some firms had better set-ups for this trade than others.
If they could trade on top of it, it just added more to their pocket book. If they couldn't, it bought them time and money until they could figure it out. Whether they pissed it away or went the wrong way has nothing to do with the validity of the strategy. I know people whose entire trading career was based off of this trade. Is that a good move? Of course not. Did they make a lot of money? Yes. Was it still a valid edge while it was happening? Yes.
Quote from Don Bright:
We have automated programs that keep bids and offers in all the time, outside of the NYSE market prices. Some even do this manually.
Don
Is there a NYSE link or someplace where i can find a list of stocks and times/prices where these sweeps took place? or are do the occur more frequently than the NYSE anticipated?
Quote from SDticks:
I have no idea when you started trading. All I meant was that you probably got into the numbers game at the end of it. Why do I think that?
1. I'm guessing you worked for Refco Trading Services (Macfutures) when it opened up in the US - this was at the end of the numbers game
2. You mentioned the bonds having 2-4 handle moves on NFP. This was towards the end of that game.
Please feel free to correct any of my assumptions if I am wrong.
Really I meant no disrespect to you. It's just that strategy your bashing, hitting number releases off of bloomberg, worked for a really long time and made people a lot of money. It used to work for almost all of the significant numbers. No, you were never ahead of everyone, but you were in early enough for people to come in behind you and drive the price up or down significantly from your entry. Some firms had better set-ups for this trade than others.
If they could trade on top of it, it just added more to their pocket book. If they couldn't, it bought them time and money until they could figure it out. Whether they pissed it away or went the wrong way has nothing to do with the validity of the strategy. I know people whose entire trading career was based off of this trade. Is that a good move? Of course not. Did they make a lot of money? Yes. Was it still a valid edge while it was happening? Yes.
Your original post seemed a bit harsh. Thats why I snapped back at ya. Sorry for that. You are correct on most points.
Yes that trading style did work for a period of time. I was trading for about 10 yrs before I got there. Regardless of if it worked (which it did at times) I felt it was an insane way to make money over the longhaul. Was more like gambling than trading. It's kind of tough basing your whole month off of about 3 minutes of trading each month.
I just think it taught people some real bad habits.
Quote from nxsux:
Is there a NYSE link or someplace where i can find a list of stocks and times/prices where these sweeps took place? or are do the occur more frequently than the NYSE anticipated?
I sincerely think that these sweeps do take place more often than ever anticipated by the NYSE.
I don't think there is a TOS data feed that shows the sweeps.
Don
Quote from EPrado:
Your original post seemed a bit harsh. Thats why I snapped back at ya. Sorry for that. You are correct on most points.
Yes that trading style did work for a period of time. I was trading for about 10 yrs before I got there. Regardless of if it worked (which it did at times) I felt it was an insane way to make money over the longhaul. Was more like gambling than trading. It's kind of tough basing your whole month off of about 3 minutes of trading each month.
I just think it taught people some real bad habits.
My post was more directed at Don. I just thought it was stupid that he was laughing at that particular trade just because Bright trading didn't participate, when I'm sure with with the many years he's been involved with trading he's seen his share of edges come and go.
I agree, it's stupid to base your whole career on one trade no matter what it is, especially that one, since it's obvious that it can't last. It's important to always try to figure something else out.
Where do you trade now? Still prop? Feel free to PM.
let me tell you all how this will all end.......some unemployed guy will be browsing the jobs ads on craiglist........he'll apply for one of these trading 'jobs'........and surprise, he gets a call back and an immediate interview.....he falls for the sales pitch "unlimited income, total freedom, etc."........he then proceeds to blowout what little money he has left......his wife leaves him......he is devastated.......buys a gun and kills the owners and couple of guys he didn't like......then the prop firm party is over as the SEC steps in..........
remember......same thing happened in 1999......in georgia.......9 people dead......probably the one of the worst shootings in US history (this was pre Columbine I believe).........and soon after, surprise PDT rule goes into effect..
leverage is crack for any speculator that doesn't know how to use it..........and a lot of these prop firm owners sell crack......and use the same excuse the drug dealers use "hey i'm just providing a service" .....lol...
remember......same thing happened in 1999......in georgia.......9 people dead......probably the one of the worst shootings in US history (this was pre Columbine I believe).........and soon after, surprise PDT rule goes into effect..
leverage is crack for any speculator that doesn't know how to use it..........and a lot of these prop firm owners sell crack......and use the same excuse the drug dealers use "hey i'm just providing a service" .....lol...