Pineman, I knew ETG well in NY as we had many of their former traders. They were a bucket shop just like all the others. Wearing a suit does not make them less of one. I can't think of one decent trader that came out of ETG. I'm sure there are a few, I just have not met any.
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My Experience at a Prop Firm
- Thread starter pineman
- Start date
Quote from Maverick74:
Pineman, I knew ETG well in NY as we had many of their former traders. They were a bucket shop just like all the others. Wearing a suit does not make them less of one. I can't think of one decent trader that came out of ETG. I'm sure there are a few, I just have not met any.
Mav
I guess my post went over your head or your or not as smarts you think you are.....my point was that they had a " Game Plan " training, class act operation, salary at first....clearly, they had the new traders vested interest in mind !
Now, as far as you getting the rejects from ETG, ( yeah, when Prop Trading was on the decline within the last four years, how many came to you from the class off '92-99...I would bet none ) like you stated, not everyone is cut out to be a trader, but a least, they were given the opportunity to fail in a formal setting....now that is on them not ETG !
Quote from pineman:
Mav
I guess my post went over your head or your or not as smarts you think you are.....my point was that they had a " Game Plan " training, class act operation, salary at first....clearly, they had the new traders vested interest in mind !
Now, as far as you getting the rejects from ETG, ( yeah, when Prop Trading was on the decline within the last four years, how many came to you from the class off '92-99...I would bet none ) like you stated, not everyone is cut out to be a trader, but a least, they were given the opportunity to fail in a formal setting....now that is on them not ETG !
No, my post went over your head. There was no game plan. None of those traders made money beyond their pitiful draw which in NYC would allow you to rent a 250 Sq foot apt in Spanish Harlem. I was in NY 2000 to 2002 and we had plenty of ETG guys from the 90's who came to us to learn from the best how to read the tape. I heard nothing good about that firm.
I'll put our traders against theirs any day of the week.
Quote from Maverick74:
No, my post went over your head. There was no game plan. None of those traders made money beyond their pitiful draw which in NYC would allow you to rent a 250 Sq foot apt in Spanish Harlem. I was in NY 2000 to 2002 and we had plenty of ETG guys from the 90's who came to us to learn from the best how to read the tape. I heard nothing good about that firm.
I'll put our traders against theirs any day of the week.
Post by Post...you are proving to me that you are not as smart as you think you are, respectfully !
Again, in your words " Not every one is cut out to be a trader " , now with that said, if you are given a salary, formal training , a professional setting to learn to trade...and you fail at it, how is that ETG problem ?
Listed below is an outline of The Master of Prop Trading courses....note you had to pass his classes before you touch the computer...
http://www.robertkanter.com/
Training
http://www.robertkanter.com/videos.html
Now post your game plan since you wish to push your agenda !
I am waiting........
Quote from pineman:
Post by Post...you are proving to me that you are not as smart as you think you are, respectfully !
Again, in your words " Not every one is cut out to be a trader " , now with that said, if you are given a salary, formal training , a professional setting to learn to trade...and you fail at it, how is that ETG problem ?
Listed below is an outline of The Master of Prop Trading courses....note you had to pass his classes before you touch the computer...
http://www.robertkanter.com/
Training
http://www.robertkanter.com/videos.html
Now post your game plan since you wish to push your agenda !
I am waiting........
Pineman, you are acting like a tool now. You can't learn to trade reading courses and watching videos. LOL. Come on man, I'm trying to take you seriously for the benefit of others reading this thread. But you are making it so hard. We made all our guys watch videos at Worldco too. Any Worldco traders here remembering watching all those videos showing bids stepping up and offers stepping down? LOL. You can't learn to trade that way. You need one on one mentoring. Kanter's course along with 1.75 would get you subway fare back to Harlem after work on the 2/3 train.
I have no agenda here. Worldco is no longer a viable entity and I'm no longer in the equity world. I have nothing to push or sell you. You keep talking about this salary at ETG. Dude, they gave guys a freaking draw that was shit. That is taking care of their traders? And the formal training they got probably ruined any chance of ever making any money in this business. Come on man, get over it and move on. ETG's success rate was god awful. The only one that made money at ETG was Kanter.
Quote from Maverick74:
Pineman, you are acting like a tool now. You can't learn to trade reading courses and watching videos. LOL. Come on man, I'm trying to take you seriously for the benefit of others reading this thread. But you are making it so hard. We made all our guys watch videos at Worldco too. Any Worldco traders here remembering watching all those videos showing bids stepping up and offers stepping down? LOL. You can't learn to trade that way. You need one on one mentoring. Kanter's course along with 1.75 would get you subway fare back to Harlem after work on the 2/3 train.
I have no agenda here. Worldco is no longer a viable entity and I'm no longer in the equity world. I have nothing to push or sell you. You keep talking about this salary at ETG. Dude, they gave guys a freaking draw that was shit. That is taking care of their traders? And the formal training they got probably ruined any chance of ever making any money in this business. Come on man, get over it and move on. ETG's success rate was god awful. The only one that made money at ETG was Kanter.
****** Shaking Head ************
I guess you don't want to get it !
Again, who is talking about videos...the man gave a formal training class on all aspect of the markets before you can even touch the computer....if that is not a formal training class vs. what this thread is about, then clearly, all this went over your head.
Draw, Salary, whatever, the point is he had the new trader vested interest in mind !
I will wait for a former EGT trader to tell me that Kanter was also a fraud like the rest of them.
Quote from pineman:
[B
Again, who is talking about videos...the man gave a formal training class on all aspect of the markets before you can even touch the computer....if that is not a formal training class vs. what this therad is about, then clearly, all this went over your head.
Draw, Salary, whatever, the point is he had the new trader vested interest in mind !
[/B]
Class, book, video, same difference. Do you really think guys learned how to trade by taking a class on trading 101?
A lot of firms give traders draws. We simply gave our guys cash. Someone generated 20k in commisions, we gave them 5k in cash for the month to live on. We were giving them their OWN money back!!!!!
You can't be this stupid. It didn't cost Kanter anything to give out that measly draw. He was paying them with their own commission dollars! LOL. Seriously man, you need to understand how the equity prop model worked. Firms marked up commisions big time. Then they either paid out a draw giving the trader their own money back or they would just give them cash whenever they asked for it, which is what we did. We gave them back pennies on the dollar though. It was a win win!!!!!
Any trader that was above average or better generated ungodly amounts of commission dollars. The prop firm then gave a small fraction back to the trader. Most traders could not live on that and if they didn't make money, sooner or later they would leave. Worldco would usually cut a check to any guy the second he even hinted at leaving. That is how we kept guys from quitting. We would say, hey pineman, markets been tough lately, we know, we know you want to quit and we decided if you stick around a little longer, we'll float you 10k in cash to get by. LOL. In my opinion, this was not generous. In fact, it was downright cruel. The reason being is that it kept guys around for months and years after they should have moved on to greener pastures.
I am trying to explain this to you. ALL firms did this crap. No firm was better or worse then anyone else. Like I said in my first post on this thread, the key was to get into a good GROUP. If you found the right mentor, you had a fighting chance.
The edge we had at Worldco is Walter went to every firm in NY, found the best traders, asked them what their rates were, and said, we'll cut those in half if you work for me. And they did. We then took these superstar traders and put 20 to 40 newbies under them to learn to trade. Some guys made it, some guys didn't. But I have to give Walter credit, he got the best traders to work for him. These guys were monsters. We published our top 30 list everyday for all in the firm to see. The guy coming in at number 30 would be up about 50k on the day. The guys in the top 5 were making 200k to 500k a day!!!! Monsters!!!
And these guys trained the newbies. Some of them made it, most didn't. But please don't think for a second there was any charity work going on here. Newbies paid out the nose in commisions to get those draws. They were taking money from their left hand and putting it in their right hand. We gave guys the best equipment, the back office, best service, but again, charged them through the roof for that privilege.
The equity model is dead today because commission rates are almost nothing and guys are doing nowhere near the volume they did then. You can no longer float guys today like you could then. We had guys that were 100k in the hole and we were still paying them cash to stay around!!!! It was free money to us. They generated 20k in commisions, we gave them a few bucks back. It wasn't that we cared about the traders, it was good business.
So please stop it with this ETG cared about their traders crap. ETG cared about their bottom line just as all prop firms do and should. Of course the prop firm wanted you to make it because when you left, they would have to replace a warm seasoned body with a new cold one trading 100 shares at a clip. It was bad business. Keep the veterans around. Cut their rates, give them money, take them out to dinner, whatever it took. Just don't let them leave. You could say it was a lot like scientology.
It was a great business model while it lasted. Those days are over. At the end of the day, it's up to the trader to make it in this business.
Mav is right, Pineman. Those formal trading will do you no good.
If the prop believe in their teaching, they should pay a salary and give profit split.
A lot of firms give "formal training" and draws...doesn't mean they give a crap about their traders.
If the prop believe in their teaching, they should pay a salary and give profit split.
A lot of firms give "formal training" and draws...doesn't mean they give a crap about their traders.