My Experience at a Prop Firm
- Thread starter pineman
- Start date
... *shheeeezzzz*
I'll tell you now that I agree with Maverick. Good prop. firms are military style. It's got to be done.
Look at the military all over the world. You have a bunch of people from all courses of life. As a military, you're expected to turn them into a soldier. You have to make them follow orders so that they don't put everyone to risk. If the "being nice and friendly" approach works, they would have done it. It just doesn't.
I'll be repeating Mav. but trader's pride and confidence can only come from making money. A trader's job is to make money. Not to look like a hotshot. If dressing nice helps you make money trading, then do so. The reality of it is, it doesn't. It does not matter. What matters for a trader is to be making money. To make money, you have to be risk-adverse.
I've worked in a good prop. where they would tell the traders to trade more. The trader is being to picky or shall I say scared of taking a risk. These people freeze or hold their positions when things go wrong. A trader has to be able to take the loss and move on... Simply, you have to get used to a taking a loss, fast.
So how do you make a person take a loss where they don't want to? The outcome of holding is unknown. It may bounce back and they can be making money... equally it can go further down and kill the account... It comes to discipline, it's making the trader do the hard thing. You have to break their mindset and opinion to limit their risk.
So why do people get into prop. firms to start off with? To make friends? No, they join to make money. If the prop. firm didn't care about you, they'll just leave you alone and make you trade however you'd like.
But if they cared, the first and best thing they can do is to make you profitable. They will try to "re-program" you to become profitable within the best of their knowledge. Of course, the newbie won't understand why and it won't be comfortable. They need to "re-program" because they don't get it from the first place, just like the OP and others.
I've started my professional career at Andover (now-Assent) in Los Angeles. Because the daytrading industry is small, I've had friends in Schonfeld, Hunt, Worldco and Bright around the Southern Cali. area.
It was tough at first but they people around me were great at teaching me the basics of trading. My mentor was an middle aged guy who used to be a specialist at the (now gone)Los Angeles-Pacific Stock Exchange. He would be screaming at me all day like:
"You fuckin' retarded!!!? A trader's job is to make money by trading. Nothing more or less. Just make shit happen!!!"
"You trade the fuckin' market. You're a fuckin' trader. What are you trying to be? A fuckin' an analyst!!! RRRAAAHHHHHHHH"
"What the fuck are you doing? If you can't trade this market, you're fuckin' retarded!!!! RAAHHHHHH&%T@#$%@#$%!@#$!@!!!!!"
"GET THE FUCK OUT!!!!"
Honestly, he was showing mad temper. I started getting scared / hating him along with the fear of losing a trade and my job. I even had a thought of beating his ass if he laid a finger on me and quit the job. But as time passed he screamed less and less. And we'd be hanging out more and more. I later heard that he had an Asian wife and he was on a mission to make me profitable when I came in. (I'm Asian) Also, he doesn't have a temper problem but he's a Semper Fi.
It's just how things are and how it's done. All the other friends in other props went through a similar experience. We used to have this discussion about pressure... We came to a conclusion that:
"To perform under pressure, you need to control that pressure. To control the pressure, you need to know that pressure. To know the pressure, you need to experience that pressure. It's painful but traders need to be willing to experience pain. So more pain we go through, the better we become. So traders are a bunch of masochists and the market is a big ol' Sadistic Motha' fucka'!!! LOL !!! " *One guy punches, the guy next to them. And a bunch of retards start punching each other for 10-15 min.*
Trading isn't for lightweights...
Are you a lightweight?
I'll tell you now that I agree with Maverick. Good prop. firms are military style. It's got to be done.
Look at the military all over the world. You have a bunch of people from all courses of life. As a military, you're expected to turn them into a soldier. You have to make them follow orders so that they don't put everyone to risk. If the "being nice and friendly" approach works, they would have done it. It just doesn't.
I'll be repeating Mav. but trader's pride and confidence can only come from making money. A trader's job is to make money. Not to look like a hotshot. If dressing nice helps you make money trading, then do so. The reality of it is, it doesn't. It does not matter. What matters for a trader is to be making money. To make money, you have to be risk-adverse.
I've worked in a good prop. where they would tell the traders to trade more. The trader is being to picky or shall I say scared of taking a risk. These people freeze or hold their positions when things go wrong. A trader has to be able to take the loss and move on... Simply, you have to get used to a taking a loss, fast.
So how do you make a person take a loss where they don't want to? The outcome of holding is unknown. It may bounce back and they can be making money... equally it can go further down and kill the account... It comes to discipline, it's making the trader do the hard thing. You have to break their mindset and opinion to limit their risk.
So why do people get into prop. firms to start off with? To make friends? No, they join to make money. If the prop. firm didn't care about you, they'll just leave you alone and make you trade however you'd like.
But if they cared, the first and best thing they can do is to make you profitable. They will try to "re-program" you to become profitable within the best of their knowledge. Of course, the newbie won't understand why and it won't be comfortable. They need to "re-program" because they don't get it from the first place, just like the OP and others.
I've started my professional career at Andover (now-Assent) in Los Angeles. Because the daytrading industry is small, I've had friends in Schonfeld, Hunt, Worldco and Bright around the Southern Cali. area.
It was tough at first but they people around me were great at teaching me the basics of trading. My mentor was an middle aged guy who used to be a specialist at the (now gone)Los Angeles-Pacific Stock Exchange. He would be screaming at me all day like:
"You fuckin' retarded!!!? A trader's job is to make money by trading. Nothing more or less. Just make shit happen!!!"
"You trade the fuckin' market. You're a fuckin' trader. What are you trying to be? A fuckin' an analyst!!! RRRAAAHHHHHHHH"
"What the fuck are you doing? If you can't trade this market, you're fuckin' retarded!!!! RAAHHHHHH&%T@#$%@#$%!@#$!@!!!!!"
"GET THE FUCK OUT!!!!"
Honestly, he was showing mad temper. I started getting scared / hating him along with the fear of losing a trade and my job. I even had a thought of beating his ass if he laid a finger on me and quit the job. But as time passed he screamed less and less. And we'd be hanging out more and more. I later heard that he had an Asian wife and he was on a mission to make me profitable when I came in. (I'm Asian) Also, he doesn't have a temper problem but he's a Semper Fi.
It's just how things are and how it's done. All the other friends in other props went through a similar experience. We used to have this discussion about pressure... We came to a conclusion that:
"To perform under pressure, you need to control that pressure. To control the pressure, you need to know that pressure. To know the pressure, you need to experience that pressure. It's painful but traders need to be willing to experience pain. So more pain we go through, the better we become. So traders are a bunch of masochists and the market is a big ol' Sadistic Motha' fucka'!!! LOL !!! " *One guy punches, the guy next to them. And a bunch of retards start punching each other for 10-15 min.*
Trading isn't for lightweights...
Are you a lightweight?
He' s clueless to my situation.... whether or not he believe that most of Props Firms are criminal is subjective, but he can't denied my experience of what i saw first hand. All this bogus talking about trading should be like the military is foolish....not every young person or middle age person who wishes to join a Prop Firm is down and out on their luck, most spent a lot of money, either by loans or their parents paid for their college tuition, most now a day have on average about 50k-80k in loans to pay back...most go in there with good intentions, why F" them over !
Now you would want your kid to be subjected to these slime balls ?
The truth of the matter is that most of these spots are playing a number game, the rule of large numbers ! They have no agenda, no game plan.
When you have a game plan like" ETGroup " ....Robert Kanter, a least when they fist started out, now that was a class act....the rest of them in my opinion are running a legal racket.
So please spare me the nonsense !
I know people who do 12k shares/day, lose money, and pay .00225. You underestimate the extent to which the prop firms are desperate for commission money in this hybrid-market era.
I agree, but if he doesnt know what he's doing, he'll lose it 10x faster.
1. Who is full of nonsense?
You have failed to comunicate to us why you mean they are a bunch of crooks.
Is it the fees you agreed to or is it because you dont like the way they dress?
2. You never answered Maverics Q "Had you been doing the same trading at home in your boxer shorts with an account at IB, would you have made money?".
Most probably I think is because the answer is no.
3. I do not know you at all, but from the way you write and act I get a feeling you are not the freshest tomato around.
Maybe you should apply at Amnesty International or something so you could fight slime-balls?
You are full of nonsense and lack any comprehension at all...what part you can't understand ?
As if my story is so way off base that it is impossible what i am saying is true !
Again , I said that they are short on their promise of having a mentor, formal training program, etc....why are you dwelling on dressing ! I make a point end of it .
Re : Fees, you are such a loser, fees are least of the problem if you have no formal training, mentor, no game plan etc.. how can you even ....never mind.
YOU ARE A WASTE OF MY TIME !
.
I'm on a good relationship basis with the owners of one of the prop shops I trade remote with and he often tells me that 1 out of 50 guys that join the firm actually make it through 2 years without blowing up.
OP your statements although generalizations are true.
That being said how many actors/actresses go to Hollywood every year in search of fame and fortune?
Trading is no different!
OP your statements although generalizations are true.
That being said how many actors/actresses go to Hollywood every year in search of fame and fortune?
Trading is no different!