My dear brothers...OBTAINING AN EDGE
- Thread starter neo_hr
- Start date
AllenZ: âPut everything in writing. Start a journal, keep accurate daily records, and see how your actual trading equates to your written methodology.â
âTrading systems change with each market, trading methodology is something you can develop and tweak and keep in a general form for your entire career.â
I'm a little late to the party, but nice post Allen.
I keep a whole boatload of different data/stats regarding my setups. I am then able to go over a series of trades and plug in or omit various parameters to see how I might adjust my system as or if required.
The same idea can be used to take a raw, unpolished idea for a system, be it only marginally profitable or not at all, and adjust until you find something that is workable.
IMHO, understanding how to develop various methods of trade management is likely to have a more significant impact on a traderâs long-term success, rather than equal time spent developing methods of entry.
âTrading systems change with each market, trading methodology is something you can develop and tweak and keep in a general form for your entire career.â
I'm a little late to the party, but nice post Allen.
I keep a whole boatload of different data/stats regarding my setups. I am then able to go over a series of trades and plug in or omit various parameters to see how I might adjust my system as or if required.
The same idea can be used to take a raw, unpolished idea for a system, be it only marginally profitable or not at all, and adjust until you find something that is workable.
IMHO, understanding how to develop various methods of trade management is likely to have a more significant impact on a traderâs long-term success, rather than equal time spent developing methods of entry.
Hello all!
Sorry for my late reply but I just woke up, yup, the time difference.
A SINCERE THANK YOU TO ALL OF YOU WHO HELPED! A few corrections in order though :
English is my 2nd language so I may not be able to express myself well. I have been learning for 4 years now, trading stocks for a couple of months...hrm, more or less breakeven or a slight minus.
I AM NOT LOOKING FOR A HOLY GRAIL. I have really read a lot of material on the subject of trading, and belive me Ive also spent countless hours reading ALL I could get my hands on. Mark Douglas also so I DO belive trading is all about probabilities and money management but you can have the best MM in the world and discipline and fail if you dont have the simple entry/exit system (be it mechanic or discretionary) .
Tntneo - I understand that people have devoted their life to trading and looking for systems, testing, educating themselves etc. IM NOT LOOKING FOR A CHEAP RIDE - For instance, Yo Tnt, give me a system, NO thats not it! What I wanted in this thread is a discussion about some KNOWN systems that may or may not work doesnt matter and tear them apart so everyone can come up with a simple one of their own. I mean isnt it why we have this board? For ex. there are so many indicators that I dont even know where to begin looking... And I do NOT disrespect psych yadda, in fact I also think it is the key, but you must have something to trade of and THEN work on your discipline/psych/etc, eh?!
What I do is look for 1, 3, 15 min patterns as I said in ENSIGN (tntneo will know what Im talking about) sim mode (btw, I trade stocks and this seems to be the minis sim, is it any worth to me?) with CCI(10)... seems to be a fairly good indicator when at extremes. The problem is theres no volume in sim mode.
My main interest in stocks would be some kind of overnight plays (entry in the last hour, keeping overnight, exiting the next days 1st hour) because of my small acct. I WANT TO FISH; NOT THE FISH! I have tried the pullbacks but I end up fading the moves which eventually kills me cos I "think" to much i.e. im trading what I think.
OK, Now im taking up too much space so Ill cut it
THANK YOU!
Alex
P.S. Duff, Ive been meaning to ask you about that website I had some PC issues so I lost the web and my pass, could you PM me URL? And you speak the truth, not brutal... my main problem IS fear of loosing since yup, its a lot of dough overhere. Thx man and trade well
Sorry for my late reply but I just woke up, yup, the time difference.
A SINCERE THANK YOU TO ALL OF YOU WHO HELPED! A few corrections in order though :
English is my 2nd language so I may not be able to express myself well. I have been learning for 4 years now, trading stocks for a couple of months...hrm, more or less breakeven or a slight minus.
I AM NOT LOOKING FOR A HOLY GRAIL. I have really read a lot of material on the subject of trading, and belive me Ive also spent countless hours reading ALL I could get my hands on. Mark Douglas also so I DO belive trading is all about probabilities and money management but you can have the best MM in the world and discipline and fail if you dont have the simple entry/exit system (be it mechanic or discretionary) .
Tntneo - I understand that people have devoted their life to trading and looking for systems, testing, educating themselves etc. IM NOT LOOKING FOR A CHEAP RIDE - For instance, Yo Tnt, give me a system, NO thats not it! What I wanted in this thread is a discussion about some KNOWN systems that may or may not work doesnt matter and tear them apart so everyone can come up with a simple one of their own. I mean isnt it why we have this board? For ex. there are so many indicators that I dont even know where to begin looking... And I do NOT disrespect psych yadda, in fact I also think it is the key, but you must have something to trade of and THEN work on your discipline/psych/etc, eh?!
What I do is look for 1, 3, 15 min patterns as I said in ENSIGN (tntneo will know what Im talking about) sim mode (btw, I trade stocks and this seems to be the minis sim, is it any worth to me?) with CCI(10)... seems to be a fairly good indicator when at extremes. The problem is theres no volume in sim mode.
My main interest in stocks would be some kind of overnight plays (entry in the last hour, keeping overnight, exiting the next days 1st hour) because of my small acct. I WANT TO FISH; NOT THE FISH! I have tried the pullbacks but I end up fading the moves which eventually kills me cos I "think" to much i.e. im trading what I think.
OK, Now im taking up too much space so Ill cut it
THANK YOU!
Alex
P.S. Duff, Ive been meaning to ask you about that website I had some PC issues so I lost the web and my pass, could you PM me URL? And you speak the truth, not brutal... my main problem IS fear of loosing since yup, its a lot of dough overhere. Thx man and trade well
OK heres a screenshot of what I did today. Its only 1min chart as that is where my software puts the arrows entry/exit.
1st trade - long at 40500 ish; I got out too soon as I treated it as a bearflag in a downtrend plus it was also near 20MA at 3 min chart
2nd trade - bullflag enrty criteria, it was in an uptrend on 3 min and in a bearflag on 30min chart, plus CCI was signallin a buy. Also stupid exit early
3rd trade - shoulda exited on this spike but this time I thought ill keep a little longer... hrmm...
last trade - was supposed to be a bullflag entry but I got stopped out and then I was affrait to reenter.
1st trade - long at 40500 ish; I got out too soon as I treated it as a bearflag in a downtrend plus it was also near 20MA at 3 min chart
2nd trade - bullflag enrty criteria, it was in an uptrend on 3 min and in a bearflag on 30min chart, plus CCI was signallin a buy. Also stupid exit early
3rd trade - shoulda exited on this spike but this time I thought ill keep a little longer... hrmm...
last trade - was supposed to be a bullflag entry but I got stopped out and then I was affrait to reenter.
Hi..I Found this site quite recently..and have made some post on "e-mini trainer wanted".. which would also apply here.
After many years ( about 8 years in all ) the pieces of the puzzle have only started to fit together over the past 2-3 years.
I say this because what is often overlooked are the extremities that trading subjects one to, and that trading is not about what we "thought it to be".
I have read that in a life most of us will experience everything at least once to whatever degree.
however you can live a whole life in a single day of trading.!!
I say this because I have found (and I hope this helps) that I am using to trade now that which I first started with..it has however taken this time and experience to understand and recognize what is right to do and when not to trade..
this is the catch 22 for all traders and especially when you first start out..that you don't know what you don't know until you know it..if you see what I mean.
If, when you started, you knew that it would take most of your money if not all and that you may well feel like you are waisting your life as the months and years roll by without any progress interms of your dream of wealth..and that you will be exhausted by the roller coaster ride of profit and loss and that every relationship you valued (and all that you value) will be tested to the limit on and on.. who would try..?
Well I guese that last question was the answer for me, as to why things eventually came together..
It was not because I found some secrete out there, it was what I found inside..!
In a nutshell, ( if possible !) it was a level of honesty with myself, in terms of my weaknesses and strengths..and as has been previosly posted well, looking to what I was doing to lose so to improve, and also remembering the right stuff.
I have found that i needed to make sacrifices (financial) to see if and how my tech indicators worked..then a sacrifice to find an appropriate market for them and me ( my personality)
more sacrifices to find a broker and the trading platforms etc..etc..
The sacrifices are enormouse in trading..and they are all in HINDSIGHT..!
I don't say this to be pesermistic..actually on the contrary, because there is an equal ( if not greater) reward for such sacrifice..as I put together what trading is for me , piece by piece, I have begun to create the picture that was my dream..
Finally I will say, as to help any new trader, ..it is not having a dream that scares poeple, it is the "thought" that the dream will not come true.(and as we lose, this "failure" can "feel" very real ) but remember that trading is you, it is yours, and it is whatever you "decide" it to be..have the courage to dream, to both decide and to find what will make what you decide work.
What is trading to me now.well its less about the tech tools, as they are in place, its less about contract size and fear..what it is, is endevouring to exist within the "present moment"..!! ( and all that that is, which I shall not bore anyone with )..would I ever of thought that when I started out..? no..
Trading is a mirror of the trader..just be brave enough to look..this is the traders EDGE..
mbt3
After many years ( about 8 years in all ) the pieces of the puzzle have only started to fit together over the past 2-3 years.
I say this because what is often overlooked are the extremities that trading subjects one to, and that trading is not about what we "thought it to be".
I have read that in a life most of us will experience everything at least once to whatever degree.
however you can live a whole life in a single day of trading.!!
I say this because I have found (and I hope this helps) that I am using to trade now that which I first started with..it has however taken this time and experience to understand and recognize what is right to do and when not to trade..
this is the catch 22 for all traders and especially when you first start out..that you don't know what you don't know until you know it..if you see what I mean.
If, when you started, you knew that it would take most of your money if not all and that you may well feel like you are waisting your life as the months and years roll by without any progress interms of your dream of wealth..and that you will be exhausted by the roller coaster ride of profit and loss and that every relationship you valued (and all that you value) will be tested to the limit on and on.. who would try..?
Well I guese that last question was the answer for me, as to why things eventually came together..
It was not because I found some secrete out there, it was what I found inside..!
In a nutshell, ( if possible !) it was a level of honesty with myself, in terms of my weaknesses and strengths..and as has been previosly posted well, looking to what I was doing to lose so to improve, and also remembering the right stuff.
I have found that i needed to make sacrifices (financial) to see if and how my tech indicators worked..then a sacrifice to find an appropriate market for them and me ( my personality)
more sacrifices to find a broker and the trading platforms etc..etc..
The sacrifices are enormouse in trading..and they are all in HINDSIGHT..!
I don't say this to be pesermistic..actually on the contrary, because there is an equal ( if not greater) reward for such sacrifice..as I put together what trading is for me , piece by piece, I have begun to create the picture that was my dream..
Finally I will say, as to help any new trader, ..it is not having a dream that scares poeple, it is the "thought" that the dream will not come true.(and as we lose, this "failure" can "feel" very real ) but remember that trading is you, it is yours, and it is whatever you "decide" it to be..have the courage to dream, to both decide and to find what will make what you decide work.
What is trading to me now.well its less about the tech tools, as they are in place, its less about contract size and fear..what it is, is endevouring to exist within the "present moment"..!! ( and all that that is, which I shall not bore anyone with )..would I ever of thought that when I started out..? no..
Trading is a mirror of the trader..just be brave enough to look..this is the traders EDGE..
mbt3
I agree; experience gives you the ability to read lots of useless garbage and listen to endless bullshit, and pick out that bit of useful information that you then know how to apply and have the resources to do it. Experience also gives you the personal contacts on the trade desks, floor, etc. to find out what is really working now.
I suspect that you won't be given direct answers to your question, not because an edge doesn't exist, but because most, if not all, traders have paid dearly for this knowledge in terms of actual $$. Now you ask for it for free. Losing money really drives knowledge home.
Now here's my contribution. Farley said that the markets either provide feedback or negative feedback. This is a good point when you realize that occasionally the charts send clear messages to traders and frequently they send noise. Learning to differentiate this fact is essential. Feedback can take the form of S/R, Candlestick Patterns, Fibonacci Retracements, Volume, Failed Patterns, TA, News, Fundamentals, etc. Sometimes, multiple events must line up for the feedback to be meaningful. Study your art and learn to filter the noise. After you do this, then the psychological factors come into play.
Good Luck and Big Profits
Now here's my contribution. Farley said that the markets either provide feedback or negative feedback. This is a good point when you realize that occasionally the charts send clear messages to traders and frequently they send noise. Learning to differentiate this fact is essential. Feedback can take the form of S/R, Candlestick Patterns, Fibonacci Retracements, Volume, Failed Patterns, TA, News, Fundamentals, etc. Sometimes, multiple events must line up for the feedback to be meaningful. Study your art and learn to filter the noise. After you do this, then the psychological factors come into play.
Good Luck and Big Profits