My account wiped out. Any recourse?

Option_Attack · Mar 12, 2020

I think that was from PD givin' the OP some tough love.

Awww...market lessons. We all gotta learn them.

ironchef said:
Did I say anything impolite? If so, ignore my posts.

We gave you our honest opinion. Don't have to take it if you don't like it but no need to curse.

Same Lazy Element · Mar 12, 2020

bthale51 said:
after the fact... market makers bought them

Do you really think market makers are holding on to all that gamma you sold? Most OMMs naturally have a short gamma bias since they are the first ones to see the flow and can quickly turn the position around. Some dude out there that bought the vol you've sold (me, for example) right now is sipping scotch and giggling.

Buy1Sell2 · Mar 12, 2020

WIND-UP THREAD. --could be pronounced two ways.

Fain · Mar 12, 2020

I worked at a brokerage for 7 years. The majority of brokerages will not chase the debt aggressively. I'd advice not paying the full debt but maybe offer them 10-20 cents on the dollar.

Cost of doing business.

ironchef · Mar 12, 2020

Same Lazy Element said:
Do you really think market makers are holding on to all that gamma you sold? Most OMMs naturally have a short gamma bias since they are the first ones to see the flow and can quickly turn the position around. Some dude out there that bought the vol you've sold (me, for example) right now is sipping scotch and giggling.

What if I was the dumb trader who bought vol (following Taleb) from you in the beginning? Are you still sipping scotch?

Wait, I forgot, you, the MM, sold my vol to @bthale51 for a profit then sipping scotch and giggling.

Same Lazy Element · Mar 12, 2020

ironchef said:
What if I was the dumb trader who bought vol (following Taleb) from you in the beginning? Are you still sipping scotch?

Well, someone bought vol and someone sold vol. An options market maker is in the middle, transferring risk for a fee. This said, some of them did pretty poorly in this disaster - for example, a few Chicago firms (for instance, C*** T*** and B********) blew up and had their positions liquidated.

ironchef · Mar 12, 2020

Same Lazy Element said:
Well, someone bought vol and someone sold vol. An options market maker is in the middle, transferring risk for a fee. This said, some of them did pretty poorly in this disaster - for example, a few Chicago firms (for instance, C*** T*** and B********) blew up and had their positions liquidated.

Kidding aside, I thought MM always make money?

qaz · Mar 12, 2020

I take my trading seriously. Never have I gone off-grid while my positions are open. Can't imagine doing that especially with naked positions.

schizo · Mar 12, 2020

dozu888 said:
how many times do you have to bring up the dips you cannot catch... there have been many posts in my 'trading is easy' thread.... catch dip is a myth... can we put that aside, or can you come back with some proof that dip catching beats the very basic DCA.

personal guarantee, sure... I never said no draw down.... often refer to Buffett's 50% rule... look it up.

Isn't it too late to rationalize? Why don't you just confess that you've messed up and you're sorry for your overoptimistic blunders? :banghead:

Same Lazy Element · Mar 12, 2020

ironchef said:
Kidding aside, I thought MM always make money?

The guys who do make money most of the time are the higher frequency guys that buy order flow from the retail and usually have very little positions at the end of each day. That's a heavy duty technology business and it's very hard to get involved there.

"Real" market makers do take meaningful risk and sometimes get run over. In options, it happens because MMs end up with a large position and did not anticipate some event/ I would imagine a lot of index market makers were conditioned to puke their gamma right after they bought it and went into these moves short gamma or (worse and it's a common MM position) long gamma but short skew. That would have hurt a lot.