It's plenty worth it for me and I dare say would be likewise for all but a few here. I'm into consistency, getting on the bases when at bat each and every day. Trading done right is also quite boring and did I say enough times, stressless too.
Multiple time frames....bad for me?
- Thread starter cashmoney69
- Start date
It's plenty worth it for me and I dare say would be likewise for all but a few here. I'm into consistency, getting on the bases when at bat each and every day. Trading done right is also quite boring and did I say enough times, stressless too.
Quote from JSSPMK:
Is it so hard to understand that what is relative to you is not necessarily so to another person? Somebody might enter this conversation & tell us that we don't need a chart to trade "unless we believe that it does". Are you going to accept his opinion as THE right way if it's non relative to your own personal experience? Hopefully we are all rational adults here that can agree to disagree
All the best!
Somehow you have successfully missed the OP's question
"DOES ANYONE here on ET trade successfully off ONE time
frame?...I'd love to do this if others have as well."
f9
Yes, it's about efficiency. And so far I've not seen any bickering claiming one style is 'better' than another...just individual preference. This is as it should be.
There ARE many ways to trade for a profit within any time frame, as someone who has traded the markets any length of time knows. Some scan for a specific failure setup, some for breakouts, some for channels...the key is knowing the parameters by which each will be succesfull or not.
Efficiency comes from accepting reality and adjusting yourself to it, rather than fighting it. Fighting it leads to being mired in quicksand, with all attendant losses.
<i>"I've narrowed it down, as to why I'm still not pulling out money each week from the markets, and its because I'm having a hard time grasping multiple time frames. I dont know why, but it SHOULD be easy."</i>
From the OP directly, first paragraph.
f9, a lot of things aren't necessary in life. Traders can use several charts, two charts, one chart or no charts to trade from with varying degrees of effectiveness.
My job as a trader with primary objective of making money is to identify and capture the most money possible with least effort involved. Anything that strays from this objective falls into recreational aspects and goals outside of pure $$ profit.
Using a slower chart to show directional bias at any moment in time and applying a faster chart to trade within those directional periods is one effective way of plucking the low-hanging fruit.
Trading is no different than any other sport or pursuit. For some men, the primary goal is money. For <b>most others</b> the primary goal is personal acheivement in some form or fashion. Those who are fixated on pure profit as primary objective from trading may find that trading early wave periods from a fast chart inside a relatively slower chart is the easiest path to accomplish their intended feat.
Low-hanging fruit is easiest to harvest. How you spot that is individual choice.
From the OP directly, first paragraph.
f9, a lot of things aren't necessary in life. Traders can use several charts, two charts, one chart or no charts to trade from with varying degrees of effectiveness.
My job as a trader with primary objective of making money is to identify and capture the most money possible with least effort involved. Anything that strays from this objective falls into recreational aspects and goals outside of pure $$ profit.
Using a slower chart to show directional bias at any moment in time and applying a faster chart to trade within those directional periods is one effective way of plucking the low-hanging fruit.
Trading is no different than any other sport or pursuit. For some men, the primary goal is money. For <b>most others</b> the primary goal is personal acheivement in some form or fashion. Those who are fixated on pure profit as primary objective from trading may find that trading early wave periods from a fast chart inside a relatively slower chart is the easiest path to accomplish their intended feat.
Low-hanging fruit is easiest to harvest. How you spot that is individual choice.
............
Upon scanning through this thread, I recalled the following thread the last time I made the misfortune of posting on this playground of a forum. My purpose is not to embarrass anyone or make claims of greatness; Iâm simply placing things into perspective.
From the last time I visited:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=127028&perpage=6&pagenumber=37
********************************
--------------------------
Quote from ammo:
allright, price action today shows no pullbacks, we are at a major res line at 1440,everyone knows this number,selllers are not coming in, this is accumulation or distribution,i think its going higher,i;m already short and don;t want to cover here,this is where i often get nailed...this is my mental block spot in trading...any thoughts
----------------------------
Quote from MandelbrotSet:
If it's going up, why are you shorting?
***
This is the second part of the equation, and what we do over and over and over and over and over and over again ... until we learn not to.
It's going up, like you said, with no pullbacks. So stay LONG until further notice.
--------------------------
Quote from Stealth Trader:
I'm short 20 ES contracts here as well. Upwards is indeed the bias, just fading into that resistance for now until price shows me different.
--------------------------
Quote from Stealth Trader:
LOL!!!! You are correct, however, I'll take a few hits now and then to stay out of the cross bar hotel.
You were on fire the last time I noticed one of your posts........are you still taking everyones money? Still on ES or back to DAX (?)...
------------------------
Quote from JSSPMK:
It's been a funny period, sometimes I take quite a beating to finally equalise EOD. I guess my style is better suited to faster pace markets, so last 3 months have been a tad shitty over here, maybe I drink too much tea Whilst DAX gone into some crazy p/a mode I made a switch to ES, I think I have to start moving back into DAX now. I guess OK sums it up pretty well, TY!
--------------------------
Quote from jack hershey:
On page 22, the famous referal of this thread you missed the end of the current dominant trend. And you criticized the guy who was opposite you on the right side of the trend.
---------------------------------
Quote from MandelbrotSet:
When ammo made the call, he was on the wrong side of the trend, it hadn't turned yet.
st was "fading the move" - which means going aginst the dominant trend, as the he saw that the market was facing strong resistance.
----------------------------------
Quote from JSSPMK:
It's about figuring out a way, there is no THE way, so all chest beating in favour of price action only can relax ImPO
---------------------------------
Quote from MandelbrotSet:
Says a guy who likes to take divergence trades while the market is trending strongly using a MACD indicator.
That's okay JSSPMK, we still luv ya!
P.S. Oh yeah, the thread topic is Nothing Beats Price Action, Everything Else is Derivative, so what you're seeing is not "chest beating", it's actual experience. Notice the lack of a "smiley face", I'm very serious about that one.
-----------------------
*********************
And so on and so on. Basically, same bull$hit, different day. I pulled the posts at random, nothing personal intended.
Nonetheless, note there was a lot of backpedaling and claims of having made trades in the correct direction AFTER the fact. Save face at all costs remains the norm here at ET. However, the fact remains, those dispensing guidance to struggling traders and thumping their chest that their method of trading is lucrative, although it is statistically proven not to be, by their own admission are not consistent in their own trading. Yet they are giving advice as fact on a daily basis. This does not help anyone seeking advice. If you are not where you want to be on the trading ladder, simply say so and give your opinion as such. Perhaps when claiming to be successful and passing on advice under that guise, you should first define âsuccessful.â
For the record, where ammo and I went short, this later proved to be the top and the market has been in a free fall ever since. So much for the perceived âefficiency, less work, and similar resultsâ rhetoric of using multiple time frames from those screaming to stay long at the time; as nothing could be further from the truth as presented here in the arguments given. Furthermore, at no time have I ever implied or said that itâs my way or no way. I would like to add that the market has been in a near free fall for two months. Any trend following method and/or indicator would have shown good results during this timeframe. This is most likely why those replying negatively against single time frames are getting warm fuzzy feelings about their abilities using their chosen tools, as theyâve already forgotten the whipping they took during the aforementioned ES1440 area. My postings are typically more directed at all market conditions, all hold times, over the course of many years.
F9 did an outstanding job of clearly stating why I believe multiple time frames are just another illusion of being effective. I say that not based on the views or writings of others, but because I have seen it firsthand, time and time again, within the course of thousands upon thousands hours screen time. There is nothing else I can add to F9âs commentary that would change anyoneâs mind within this thread, nor do I have any desire to do so. I shared, you declined, no harm, no foul. If those of you reading this thread are content with your P&L results, nothing else need be said. But as F9 already pointed out, this thread is about whether anyone is successfully trading from one time frame. The detractors getting their panties in a wad over my dissent failed to make their case and are now hiding behind the ET standard rhetoric of how âit works for meâ when in fact it clearly doesnât. Sorry, just calling it as I see it.
The OP of this thread saw something with his own eyes, yet abandoned it when the cheerleaders told him to keep doing what he saw wasnât working; the same cheerleaders who have shown themselves to be barely profitable at best, much less actually trading real money. This will prove to be the OPâs eventual death nail in trading, as he continually shows himself to be a follower. People have stated they wouldnât listen to me for no other reason than they donât like my no nonsense approach. Well, hereâs a news flash folks; do you want your balls tickled or do you want to make real money?
No offense intended for those I may have used in my response. You just happened to be close at hand for the demonstration. The list is long as to who I am referring to spanning several different threads. That being said, I have the utmost respect for anyone willing to make live calls and openly share daily commentary on what they see occurring in the markets, right or wrong. However, those pretending to be something they are not or decide to make claims they are unable to back up can expect a âfriendlyâ visit and subsequent debate. IOW, money talks, bull$hit walks.
In conclusion, I am always amazed at the number of ET posters who claim they are âsuccessfulâ using techniques that have been statistically proven not to work, yet they rely on a day job to support themselves and to fund their $200 Forex accounts. Thatâs not to imply in any way I find anything wrong with holding an honest job. I just find it somewhat perplexing, if not downright humorous, that someone so successful doing what tens of thousands before them could not, would need a job and why they have a deep seated need to spend massive amounts of time trying to bullshit the masses. And for those holding jobs while either learning to trade or investing longer-term for your future, this is not directed at you. Iâm referring to the pom-pom queens quick to give advice who classify themselves as master day-traders/scalpers and continually claim to have all the answers about how to trade, yet arenât able to support themselves doing so. This is where I step up to the plate and call you folks out. You know who you are!
Believing one good turn deserves another, here are the results of the so-called âefficient, easier, similarâ methodical approach:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=1771704
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=113193&perpage=6&pagenumber=92
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=1769973
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=113193&perpage=6&pagenumber=88
Hereâs the proof in the pudding, so to speak: One posted in real time, with updates; not after the fact.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=127028&perpage=6&pagenumber=39
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=1924256
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1924256#post1924256
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1927012#post1927012
In closing, if I have annoyed you, I refer you to the âteach a pig to singâ reference, as I obviously touched a nerve. To the others, keep reading those books by failed traders and quoting them as fact whenever you are backed into a corner and canât stand your ground on merit. Say something witty and/or cute so you feel empowered. As a well respected fellow trader said a few posts back, it all boils down to choices. There are sheep and there are herdsmen. You can decide which you want to be, but itâs the choices you make that ultimately define which you actually are.
Best regards,
st
Upon scanning through this thread, I recalled the following thread the last time I made the misfortune of posting on this playground of a forum. My purpose is not to embarrass anyone or make claims of greatness; Iâm simply placing things into perspective.
From the last time I visited:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=127028&perpage=6&pagenumber=37
********************************
--------------------------
Quote from ammo:
allright, price action today shows no pullbacks, we are at a major res line at 1440,everyone knows this number,selllers are not coming in, this is accumulation or distribution,i think its going higher,i;m already short and don;t want to cover here,this is where i often get nailed...this is my mental block spot in trading...any thoughts
----------------------------
Quote from MandelbrotSet:
If it's going up, why are you shorting?
***
This is the second part of the equation, and what we do over and over and over and over and over and over again ... until we learn not to.
It's going up, like you said, with no pullbacks. So stay LONG until further notice.
--------------------------
Quote from Stealth Trader:
I'm short 20 ES contracts here as well. Upwards is indeed the bias, just fading into that resistance for now until price shows me different.
--------------------------
Quote from Stealth Trader:
LOL!!!! You are correct, however, I'll take a few hits now and then to stay out of the cross bar hotel.
You were on fire the last time I noticed one of your posts........are you still taking everyones money? Still on ES or back to DAX (?)...
------------------------
Quote from JSSPMK:
It's been a funny period, sometimes I take quite a beating to finally equalise EOD. I guess my style is better suited to faster pace markets, so last 3 months have been a tad shitty over here, maybe I drink too much tea Whilst DAX gone into some crazy p/a mode I made a switch to ES, I think I have to start moving back into DAX now. I guess OK sums it up pretty well, TY!
--------------------------
Quote from jack hershey:
On page 22, the famous referal of this thread you missed the end of the current dominant trend. And you criticized the guy who was opposite you on the right side of the trend.
---------------------------------
Quote from MandelbrotSet:
When ammo made the call, he was on the wrong side of the trend, it hadn't turned yet.
st was "fading the move" - which means going aginst the dominant trend, as the he saw that the market was facing strong resistance.
----------------------------------
Quote from JSSPMK:
It's about figuring out a way, there is no THE way, so all chest beating in favour of price action only can relax ImPO
---------------------------------
Quote from MandelbrotSet:
Says a guy who likes to take divergence trades while the market is trending strongly using a MACD indicator.
That's okay JSSPMK, we still luv ya!
P.S. Oh yeah, the thread topic is Nothing Beats Price Action, Everything Else is Derivative, so what you're seeing is not "chest beating", it's actual experience. Notice the lack of a "smiley face", I'm very serious about that one.
-----------------------
*********************
And so on and so on. Basically, same bull$hit, different day. I pulled the posts at random, nothing personal intended.
Nonetheless, note there was a lot of backpedaling and claims of having made trades in the correct direction AFTER the fact. Save face at all costs remains the norm here at ET. However, the fact remains, those dispensing guidance to struggling traders and thumping their chest that their method of trading is lucrative, although it is statistically proven not to be, by their own admission are not consistent in their own trading. Yet they are giving advice as fact on a daily basis. This does not help anyone seeking advice. If you are not where you want to be on the trading ladder, simply say so and give your opinion as such. Perhaps when claiming to be successful and passing on advice under that guise, you should first define âsuccessful.â
For the record, where ammo and I went short, this later proved to be the top and the market has been in a free fall ever since. So much for the perceived âefficiency, less work, and similar resultsâ rhetoric of using multiple time frames from those screaming to stay long at the time; as nothing could be further from the truth as presented here in the arguments given. Furthermore, at no time have I ever implied or said that itâs my way or no way. I would like to add that the market has been in a near free fall for two months. Any trend following method and/or indicator would have shown good results during this timeframe. This is most likely why those replying negatively against single time frames are getting warm fuzzy feelings about their abilities using their chosen tools, as theyâve already forgotten the whipping they took during the aforementioned ES1440 area. My postings are typically more directed at all market conditions, all hold times, over the course of many years.
F9 did an outstanding job of clearly stating why I believe multiple time frames are just another illusion of being effective. I say that not based on the views or writings of others, but because I have seen it firsthand, time and time again, within the course of thousands upon thousands hours screen time. There is nothing else I can add to F9âs commentary that would change anyoneâs mind within this thread, nor do I have any desire to do so. I shared, you declined, no harm, no foul. If those of you reading this thread are content with your P&L results, nothing else need be said. But as F9 already pointed out, this thread is about whether anyone is successfully trading from one time frame. The detractors getting their panties in a wad over my dissent failed to make their case and are now hiding behind the ET standard rhetoric of how âit works for meâ when in fact it clearly doesnât. Sorry, just calling it as I see it.
The OP of this thread saw something with his own eyes, yet abandoned it when the cheerleaders told him to keep doing what he saw wasnât working; the same cheerleaders who have shown themselves to be barely profitable at best, much less actually trading real money. This will prove to be the OPâs eventual death nail in trading, as he continually shows himself to be a follower. People have stated they wouldnât listen to me for no other reason than they donât like my no nonsense approach. Well, hereâs a news flash folks; do you want your balls tickled or do you want to make real money?
No offense intended for those I may have used in my response. You just happened to be close at hand for the demonstration. The list is long as to who I am referring to spanning several different threads. That being said, I have the utmost respect for anyone willing to make live calls and openly share daily commentary on what they see occurring in the markets, right or wrong. However, those pretending to be something they are not or decide to make claims they are unable to back up can expect a âfriendlyâ visit and subsequent debate. IOW, money talks, bull$hit walks.
In conclusion, I am always amazed at the number of ET posters who claim they are âsuccessfulâ using techniques that have been statistically proven not to work, yet they rely on a day job to support themselves and to fund their $200 Forex accounts. Thatâs not to imply in any way I find anything wrong with holding an honest job. I just find it somewhat perplexing, if not downright humorous, that someone so successful doing what tens of thousands before them could not, would need a job and why they have a deep seated need to spend massive amounts of time trying to bullshit the masses. And for those holding jobs while either learning to trade or investing longer-term for your future, this is not directed at you. Iâm referring to the pom-pom queens quick to give advice who classify themselves as master day-traders/scalpers and continually claim to have all the answers about how to trade, yet arenât able to support themselves doing so. This is where I step up to the plate and call you folks out. You know who you are!
Believing one good turn deserves another, here are the results of the so-called âefficient, easier, similarâ methodical approach:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=1771704
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=113193&perpage=6&pagenumber=92
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=1769973
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=113193&perpage=6&pagenumber=88
Hereâs the proof in the pudding, so to speak: One posted in real time, with updates; not after the fact.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=127028&perpage=6&pagenumber=39
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=1924256
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1924256#post1924256
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1927012#post1927012
In closing, if I have annoyed you, I refer you to the âteach a pig to singâ reference, as I obviously touched a nerve. To the others, keep reading those books by failed traders and quoting them as fact whenever you are backed into a corner and canât stand your ground on merit. Say something witty and/or cute so you feel empowered. As a well respected fellow trader said a few posts back, it all boils down to choices. There are sheep and there are herdsmen. You can decide which you want to be, but itâs the choices you make that ultimately define which you actually are.
Best regards,
st
Someone is looking like a crazy ass stalker, and it is apparent that they take themselves way too seriously.
Multiple-time frames worked wonderfully well this morning, showed the chop of the afternoon, and (if I had traded it) show the decline at the end of the session.
If what's his name ... the OP wants to use single, multiple or quadruple time frames I personally couldn't care less. If f9 wants to play three or four tick trades using one time frame that's his business.
The reasons why I trade, why I post, what I post and most importantly of all, why I choose to make the decisions I make regarding my lifestyle are mine and mine alone, you are way out of line in even "going there", and belive me stealth trader, if you choose to keep your ignorant ass in this "mickey mouse site" as you call it, I most definitely will make you eat those words, and then some.
***
To cashmoney, good luck with the trading decisions you make, after stealth traders stalker nutjob move, belive me, nobody is going to be showing you theirs.
Multiple-time frames worked wonderfully well this morning, showed the chop of the afternoon, and (if I had traded it) show the decline at the end of the session.
If what's his name ... the OP wants to use single, multiple or quadruple time frames I personally couldn't care less. If f9 wants to play three or four tick trades using one time frame that's his business.
The reasons why I trade, why I post, what I post and most importantly of all, why I choose to make the decisions I make regarding my lifestyle are mine and mine alone, you are way out of line in even "going there", and belive me stealth trader, if you choose to keep your ignorant ass in this "mickey mouse site" as you call it, I most definitely will make you eat those words, and then some.
***
To cashmoney, good luck with the trading decisions you make, after stealth traders stalker nutjob move, belive me, nobody is going to be showing you theirs.
None other than Ralph Nelson Elliot in, "The Wave Principle, Part VII," appearing in The Financial World [circa 1939]:
"It [A-B-C- formations] differs from other corrections in that both the first and third waves (A & C) are composed of five smaller vibrations. The second ("B") wave of Zig-zag corrections is composed of three impulses. Sometimes, in a high-speed movement, the first leg ("A") may appear continuous, and resort to the smaller or hourly studies may be necessary to detect flow."
That is why I use multiple time-frame charts, and it's why I caught the top of this bear run, on top of the fact that after 25 points of two tick exhaustion advances the bull rally went absolutely flat and dead in the water at 1440. Anyone doubting shorts there hadn't been around for any length of time. No offense to you or anyone, but it's not like it was a miracle call.