Mr. Williams responds

Quote from mschey:

If that's the truth you should have no problem citing your source so we can independently verify your information. I seriously doubt that this happened, although he admitted he lost some money for his clients, no one was wiped out.
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For the love of God, please read William Gallacher's "Winner Take All."

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/15...f=pd_bbs_1/104-8761015-3483935?_encoding=UTF8

In that book, Gallacher provides a chronology of what happened. Both Larry and Robbins Trading Co. were being investigated by the NFA.

"A large part of the NFA's complaint had to do with whether Williams ought to segregate the results of his personal trading from the results of the accounts he was handling for others. Williams claimed in his defense that the NFA's guidelines were unclear, and he may well have had a point. One disturbing fact, however, was not in dispute. During the first quarter of 1987, when the 'contest' account was appreciating from $10,000 to over $200,000, Williams' managed accounts were losing, and losing big."

He quoted the NFA's Findings and Conclusion:

"There is no question that Mr. Williams's personal trading accounts had a material effect upon his composite trading performance. The record reflects that for the first quarter of 1987, Mr. Williams's composite performance showed a loss of $6,122,281, while at the same time Mr. Williams's personal accounts experienced a gain of $902,599. The Panel finds that the fact Mr. Williams was making significant gains while managed customer accounts were suffering considerable losses would be a material fact which a potential customer would need to know in order to make a fully reasoned decision."

Both Robbins Trading Co. and Williams were fined.

What is interesting is that Mr. Williams is better known for making a million dollars during the very same period that he lost much more for his clients. But, hey, what's a little misunderstanding between friends about account segregation during a time when time stamps were also a topic of discussion?

Did I mention that BOTH Williams and Robbins Trading Co. were fined? Admittedly, the fines were little more than slaps on the wrist.

It takes a special person to be able to focus only on one part of the story and make a career of it, don't you think? Evidently, no one can milk a cash cow quite like good old Larry can.
 
I don't get it. What is so strange that somebody is managing a 10K trading pocket money in a different way than his clients millions? Obviously the timeframes, liquidity and targetzones are different.

The championship was done with futures, was he trading futures for his clients?

Also we don't know the %, but he made like 100 times return in the championship, and it is possible that he "only" lost 10% for his clients...

In this comparison you can not compare absolute numbers...
(absolute numbers are relative) :)
 
Pekelo:

When in a losing trade, get out; when you've made yourself look the fool, shut up.

Jimmy Rogers, well-known financial writer and a real money manager: "It is better to shut up and have the world wonder whether you're a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
 
Quote from Pekelo:

I don't get it. What is so strange that somebody is managing a 10K trading pocket money in a different way than his clients millions? Obviously the timeframes, liquidity and targetzones are different.

The championship was done with futures, was he trading futures for his clients?
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Clearly the PRIORITIES were different: clients come second; his own contest and ego, first.
 
I think Confucous said that first a couple thousand years ago. Rogers not ethical a writer as you thought LOL.

:D

Quote from energytraderus:

Pekelo:

When in a losing trade, get out; when you've made yourself look the fool, shut up.

Jimmy Rogers, well-known financial writer and a real money manager: "It is better to shut up and have the world wonder whether you're a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
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Quote from smilingsynic:

Clearly the PRIORITIES were different: clients come second; his own contest and ego, first.
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There are those who believe that it was somewhat more insidious than that.
 
So somebody explain this to me, because I am slow:

If Williams was actually up at 2 million in the championship and he had this 2 accounts, how come he actually lost half of it by the end of the championship? He could have just switched it as he supposedly did with the rest and finish at 2 mill...

Now I might be naive, but I assume when somebody organizes a championship, competitiors can not just withdraw from or fund money to their championship account.

And instead of quotes, I wouldn't mind substance in your responses guys, because otherwise you make it too easy for me... :)

So far my questions went unanswered... So unless you guys have info or evidence, I am done with this topic...
 
Quote from Thunderdog:

There are those who believe that it was somewhat more insidious than that.
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insidious.... your drama is quite remarkable.

i was, at first, taken by gallacher's claims prior to doing independent research into the situation. i have determined that gallacher's claims are mostly unsubstaniated---- is that book even still in print??

best

surfer
 
Quote from marketsurfer:

insidious.... your drama is quite remarkable.

i was, at first, taken by gallacher's claims prior to doing independent research into the situation. i have determined that gallacher's claims are unsubstaniated---- is that book even still in print??

best

surfer
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Yes, the book is still in print. Interestingly, Mr. Williams hasn't bothered to sue Mr. Gallacher for slander because of the "unsubstantiated claims." Most curious. Which part of the NFA's quoted findings are falsely presented by Gallacher? Was a fine not levied and paid? Were accounts actually segregated? Did the (unsegregated) managed client accounts not experience a significant and simultaneous drawdown during the period that Larry's account(s) soared? Do tell.

Insidious is a dramatic word in this context? Hmm. Let's see. We have unsegregated accounts managed by the same person. Client money diminishes, while the trader's account simultaneously flourishes. And all this during a time when there was notable time stamp laxity. Both broker and trader are fined. Hmm. What are we to think?

As you know, Gallacher had a lot more to say about Larry. What I presented here was just a choice morsel.

Surfer, you can squint all you like until you see exactly what you want to see. But it will not change what is there. Suffice it to say that each of us will draw his own conclusions. Signed up for any seminars yet?

"Independent research?" A fireside chat with Larry, perhaps?

Surfer: Mr. Williams, are you an amoral promoter just out to take people's money.
Williams: No, Surfer, I am not.
Surfer: Oh, OK.
 
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