Quote from Ghost of Cutten:
I'm not a guest in Singapore, so your comment about that, and about manners is irrelevant. Morality is more important than manners anyway - I would definitely criticise a host if they did something I considered clearly immoral, like kidnap and then incarcerate an old man for simply criticising a system he viewed as flawed.
Whether Singapore's system works or not depends on what your desired goals are. I consider that infringing people's liberties is immoral, and that murdering innocent people is evil, so Singapore definitely does not work under my standards.
Note that I said Singapore was close to a first world country, but not fully qualifying due to lack of freedom of expression and other similar issues. You have not yet provided any evidence to refute that claim, you have merely made insinuations against my manners, and claimed that democratic elections (held under conditions where factually correct corruption allegations lead to personal bankruptcy due to politically-motivated libel laws) absolve the government of any criticism. Needless to say, I don't agree that winning an election absolves any moral responsibility for actions.
People who are not bothered about those lack of freedoms can of course move there. But they are incorrect if they state it's a 1st world country. In future, if you disagree with me, provide evidence that my claims are false - don't make unsupported generalising remarks and doublespeak that evades the core issue. If you think Singapore's system is so great then deal with the facts and defend them robustly, rather than giving politician-style evasive statements.
Your inability to understand simple English makes a discussion with you a long, tedious affair. I will try to keep it short, and will thus not be responding to unrelated issues you raised.
- If you are not currently a guest of a particular country, then justified criticism of that country is not ill-mannered.
- ".....and the government is democratically elected, so one can surmise the majority consider other aspects of life to be more important than freedom of expression",
does not mean,
"........winning an election absolves any moral responsibility for actions".
Your close to first world classification of Singapore is fine, the country is not perfect. Read my post without being defensive and you will see I agree that freedom of expression is limited, whilst acknowledging the fact that things work there, ie personal safety, cleanliness, good standard of education and healthcare, good infrastructure, etc. For many people this is enough to make it a desirable place to live. Jim Rogers lives there and last I heard Mark Mobius is also based there.
The only point on which I disagreed with you, and provided evidence of that, was your statement:
"Check out the case of Alan Shadrake, jailed for 6 weeks for critiquing the Singapore death penalty system, in a book published outside Singapore."
Alan Shadrake was not jailed for critiquing the death penalty system, he was jailed for contempt of court. The link provides the details, read it. There is a difference between criticising the laws of a country and impugning its judiciary. Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have for years criticised Singapore for its use of the death penalty, nobody has been jailed for that.
The legal system in Singapore is based on the English legal system, not the American. Under that system, a lot of the criticism of the Supreme Court ruling on the Florida vote recount would probably constitute contempt of court. The fact that Shadrake may not have been jailed under the American legal system does not mean he was wrongfully imprisoned.
It is the height of arrogance to presume that what is desirable to Americans must be adopted by other democratic countries. If you look at the WEF rankings of perceived independence of the judiciary, you will see that Singapore ranks #20 and U.S. #38.
http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_GlobalCompetitivenessReport_2012-13.pdf
Please try to be more logical and objective, and less emotional. The OP is looking for feedback on Singapore and Dubai. I'm sure all accurate views are welcome, warts and all. Just leave the willful ignorance and tabloid innuendo out of it.
