MoveOn Moonbats Slander Petraeus...surprised?

[hapaboy]

Quote from james_bond_3rd:

As for Coulter, you conservatives always only quote the first sentence and claim that we distorted Coulter. Read the whole paragraph and tell me that it was not calling for genocide.

"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That's war. And this is war."

Just in case you're as ignorant as Coulter. We did not carpet bomb German cities. Or at least we still pretend we didn't. Even with the atomic bombs on Japan, we targeted military targets. Civilians were unfortunate colateral damages that we tried to avoid. The day we start to bomb civilians intentionally, is the day this nation dies and Coulter wins.

Moonbat quote of the day.

Just a heads-up, you ignorant fool: We bombed the shit out of Germany and Japan and intentionally killed civilians. Damn right we did. Are you so fucking dense that you don't think we could have taken the military targets out at Hiroshima and Nagasaki with conventional weapons? Of course we could have. But we didn't. Instead we used A-bombs. Why? Because we were letting the Japanese and the Soviets know we have this awesome new weapon capable of incredible destruction. That is why the Japanese surrendered - because hundreds of thousands of them were killed by just two of these new weapons, which we threatened to use again and again.

The US knew full well that the casualty count to civilians would be horrendous. Look at the minutes of the targeting committee at Los Alamos in May of '45:

Minutes of the second meeting of the Target Committee
Los Alamos, May 10-11, 1945

(2) Hiroshima - This is an important army depot and port of embarkation in the middle of an urban industrial area. It is a good radar target and it is such a size that a large part of the city could be extensively damaged. There are adjacent hills which are likely to produce a focussing effect which would considerably increase the blast damage. Due to rivers it is not a good incendiary target. (Classified as an AA Target)

More that was said at the meeting:

7. Psychological Factors in Target Selection

A. It was agreed that psychological factors in the target selection were of great importance. Two aspects of this are (1) obtaining the greatest psychological effect against Japan and (2) making the initial use sufficiently spectacular for the importance of the weapon to be internationally recognized when publicity on it is released.

B. In this respect Kyoto has the advantage of the people being more highly intelligent and hence better able to appreciate the significance of the weapon. Hiroshima has the advantage of being such a size and with possible focussing from nearby mountains that a large fraction of the city may be destroyed. The Emperor's palace in Tokyo has a greater fame than any other target but is of least strategic value.

Source: U.S. National Archives, Record Group 77, Records of the Office of the Chief of Engineers, Manhattan Engineer District, TS Manhattan Project File '42-'46, folder 5D Selection of Targets, 2 Notes on Target Committee Meetings.

http://www.dannen.com/decision/targets.html

Below is the bombing order. The written order for the use of the atomic bomb against Japanese cities was drafted by General Groves. President Truman and Secretary of War Stimson approved the order at Potsdam.

The order made no mention of targetting military objectives or sparing civilians. The cities themselves were the targets. The order was also open-ended. "Additional bombs" could be dropped "as soon as made ready by the project staff."

Official Bombing Order, July 25, 1945

Source: U.S. National Archives, Record Group 77, Records of the Office of the Chief of Engineers, Manhattan Engineer District, TS Manhattan Project File '42 to '46, Folder 5B "(Directives, Memos, Etc. to and from C/S, S/W, etc.)."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


TOP SECRET

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 11652, Secs 3(E) and 5(D) or (E)
NND 730039
By ERC NARS, Date 6-4-74



25 July 1945


TO: General Carl Spaatz
Commanding General
United States Army Strategic Air Forces

1. The 509 Composite Group, 20th Air Force will
deliver its first special bomb as soon as weather will
permit visual bombing after about 3 August 1945 on one of the
targets: Hiroshima, Kokura, Niigata and Nagasaki. To
carry military and civilian scientific personnel from the
War Department to observe and record the effects of the
explosion of the bomb, additional aircraft will accompany
the airplane carrying the bomb. The observing planes will
stay several miles distant from the point of impact of the
bomb.

2. Additional bombs will be delivered on the above
targets as soon as made ready by the project staff. Further
instructions will be issued concerning targets other than
those listed above.

3. Discussion of any and all information concerning
the use of the weapon against Japan is reserved to the
Secretary of War and the President of the United States.
No communiques on the subject or releases of information
will be issued by Commanders in the field without specific
prior authority. Any news stories will be sent to the War
Department for specific clearance.

4. The foregoing directive is issued to you by direc-
tion and with the approval of the Secretary of War and of
the Chief of Staff, USA. It is desired that you personally
deliver one copy of this directive to General MacArthur and
one copy to Admiral Nimitz for their information.

(Sgd) THOS. T. HANDY

THOS. T. HANDY
General, G.S.C.
Acting Chief of Staff

copy for General Groves

http://www.dannen.com/decision/handy.html

So you see, moonbat, we did intentionally kill vast numbers of Japanese civilians. This leads to Heads-up # 2: War is hell. Pure hell. Civilians die. Often in great numbers. And in horrible ways.

Heads-up # 3: Coulter was advocating that we fight this war the way wars are supposed to be fought - in a way that is most expeditious and assures your side of the least possible casualties. The A-bombs were horrible but saved far more lives - Japanese as well as US forces - if we had invaded.

Anyway, by your criteria, this nation is dead, and it died before Coulter was even born. Surely your shame at being a citizen of such an evil country must compel you to leave it. What's that? Ohhhhhh, you want to change it from within. I see... You're just another coward moonbat hypocrite, nothing more.

Segue to Bitstream, Doc Vodka, Zzztroll and other moonbats claiming Bush or evil necon Klannish altered the National Archives.....

 

[Turok]

Hapa:
>Just a heads-up, you ignorant fool: We bombed the shit
>out of Germany and Japan and intentionally killed civilians.
>Damn right we did. Are you so fucking dense that you don't
>think we could have taken the military targets out at Hiroshima
>and Nagasaki with conventional weapons? Of course we
>could have. But we didn't. Instead we used A-bombs. Why?
>Because we were letting the Japanese and the Soviets know
>we have this awesome new weapon capable of incredible
>destruction. That is why the Japanese surrendered - because
>hundreds of thousands of them were killed by just two of
>these new weapons, which we threatened to use again
>and again.

Geeez -- anyone who's studied that war knows we intentially firebombed what was essentially their paper and kindling cities leading up to the big bomb drop.

JB

 

[acronym]

Im sure Hap's aware of the fire bombing of tokyo, turok.

After all, he's the kind of guy who probably thinks "getting back to nature" means camo-face paint, an assault rifle and a ghillie suit

 

[hapaboy]

Quote from acronym:

Im sure Hap's aware of the fire bombing of tokyo, turok.

After all, he's the kind of guy who probably thinks "getting back to nature" means camo-face paint, an assault rifle and a ghillie suit

Crikey! What a beauty!

 

[hapaboy]

Shut Up or We’ll Shout You Down

By Rich Tucker
Friday, September 14, 2007

This is a good time to be a political junkie. Until recent years, it was often difficult to make one’s political opinions known. After all, only a handful of people owned printing presses or broadcast towers. Everybody else was reduced to raving on street corners.

But today, there are so many informational outlets no one person can possibly pay attention to all of them.

It’s not simply the three 24-hour cable news outlets that are constantly trolling for live content. There’s also an AM dial packed with talk radio stations. Political podcasts are sprouting like mushrooms after a rain storm. Sites such as Townhall.com carry dozens of new columns every day, and for those who want to make their opinions known immediately, there are an unlimited (but somehow still growing) number of blogs.

In short, free political speech is as prevalent today as it’s been in the entire history of our republic. Small wonder, then, that the real problem today isn’t finding an outlet for the free exchange of ideas. It’s attempts by a minority to prevent that free exchange.

Enter the political pressure group Code Pink.

The organization says it’s dedicated to getting the U.S. “out of Iraq NOW,” but it doesn’t seem to be having much luck. Last fall Democrats won both houses of Congress, but almost a year later our policy has gone in the opposite direction from the one that Code Pink advocates. It wants our troops out, but Congress agreed to President Bush’s request to surge more troops in.

This week, Army Gen. David Petraeus and Ambassador to Iraq Ryan Crocker came to Washington to answer questions from lawmakers about the war. The men clearly remain cautious, but they report we’re making progress. “Coalition and Iraqi forces have dealt significant blows to al Qaeda-Iraq. Though al Qaeda and its affiliates in Iraq remain dangerous, we have taken away a number of their sanctuaries and gained the initiative in many areas,” Petraeus told senators.

Now, under our political system, Code Pink is free to disagree with Petraeus. They’re even free, as fellow liberal pressure group Moveon.org did, to take out a newspaper ad in The New York Times attacking him. But they ought to at least hear him out.

No such luck. Several times during both the House and Senate hearings, Code Pink protestors interrupted the testimony. They stood, shouting and waving banners, until police escorted them out. Here’s how a New York Times editorial describes the interruption in the House: “When protesters interrupted the hearing, Rep. Skelton ordered them removed from the room, which is understandable. But then he said that they would be prosecuted. That seemed like an unnecessarily authoritarian response to people who just wanted to be heard.”

That, of course, completely distorts what these “protestors” want to do. They don’t want to be heard; they want to prevent others from being heard.

Gen. Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker came to Washington lawmakers to give their views, and they did so. The Code Pink activists in the room didn’t want to hear from them, and more than that, they wanted to prevent others from hearing from them. So they disrupted the hearings until they were removed from the room.

To put it in terms the Times editors can understand, if the protestors had wanted to “be heard” they had many outlets. They could have written an op-ed and submitted it to the newspaper, for example. Instead, they tried, in effect, to stand in front of the newspaper box and prevent other people from buying the paper.

To further illustrate the difference, if you disagree with what I’m saying here (it’s been known to happen), Townhall invites you to go to comments box and pound out a response which will remain tacked to the column, well, forever. But Townhall will not allow you (I hope) to hack into my column and erase entire paragraphs. That’s because this site respects the difference between a free exchange of opinion and an attempt to prevent other voices from being heard.

It’s wonderful to live in a free society. But as long as the Code Pink protesters want to shout everyone else down they aren’t encouraging free speech, they’re infringing upon it.

The organization’s message clearly isn’t strong enough to win many converts in an open debate. Too bad for them, but that’s their problem. If their arguments are that weak, maybe they ought to rethink them. Instead, they run around town disrupting others and generally behaving like a group of unsupervised kindergartners. No wonder they’re pitied, not powerful.

 

[james_bond_3rd]

Quote from hapaboy:

Moonbat quote of the day.

Just a heads-up, you ignorant fool: We bombed the shit out of Germany and Japan and intentionally killed civilians. Damn right we did. Are you so fucking dense that you don't think we could have taken the military targets out at Hiroshima and Nagasaki with conventional weapons? Of course we could have. But we didn't. Instead we used A-bombs. Why? Because we were letting the Japanese and the Soviets know we have this awesome new weapon capable of incredible destruction. That is why the Japanese surrendered - because hundreds of thousands of them were killed by just two of these new weapons, which we threatened to use again and again.

The US knew full well that the casualty count to civilians would be horrendous. Look at the minutes of the targeting committee at Los Alamos in May of '45:

Minutes of the second meeting of the Target Committee
Los Alamos, May 10-11, 1945

(2) Hiroshima - This is an important army depot and port of embarkation in the middle of an urban industrial area. It is a good radar target and it is such a size that a large part of the city could be extensively damaged. There are adjacent hills which are likely to produce a focussing effect which would considerably increase the blast damage. Due to rivers it is not a good incendiary target. (Classified as an AA Target)

More that was said at the meeting:

7. Psychological Factors in Target Selection

A. It was agreed that psychological factors in the target selection were of great importance. Two aspects of this are (1) obtaining the greatest psychological effect against Japan and (2) making the initial use sufficiently spectacular for the importance of the weapon to be internationally recognized when publicity on it is released.

B. In this respect Kyoto has the advantage of the people being more highly intelligent and hence better able to appreciate the significance of the weapon. Hiroshima has the advantage of being such a size and with possible focussing from nearby mountains that a large fraction of the city may be destroyed. The Emperor's palace in Tokyo has a greater fame than any other target but is of least strategic value.

Source: U.S. National Archives, Record Group 77, Records of the Office of the Chief of Engineers, Manhattan Engineer District, TS Manhattan Project File '42-'46, folder 5D Selection of Targets, 2 Notes on Target Committee Meetings.

http://www.dannen.com/decision/targets.html

Below is the bombing order. The written order for the use of the atomic bomb against Japanese cities was drafted by General Groves. President Truman and Secretary of War Stimson approved the order at Potsdam.

The order made no mention of targetting military objectives or sparing civilians. The cities themselves were the targets. The order was also open-ended. "Additional bombs" could be dropped "as soon as made ready by the project staff."

Official Bombing Order, July 25, 1945

Source: U.S. National Archives, Record Group 77, Records of the Office of the Chief of Engineers, Manhattan Engineer District, TS Manhattan Project File '42 to '46, Folder 5B "(Directives, Memos, Etc. to and from C/S, S/W, etc.)."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


TOP SECRET

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 11652, Secs 3(E) and 5(D) or (E)
NND 730039
By ERC NARS, Date 6-4-74



25 July 1945


TO: General Carl Spaatz
Commanding General
United States Army Strategic Air Forces

1. The 509 Composite Group, 20th Air Force will
deliver its first special bomb as soon as weather will
permit visual bombing after about 3 August 1945 on one of the
targets: Hiroshima, Kokura, Niigata and Nagasaki. To
carry military and civilian scientific personnel from the
War Department to observe and record the effects of the
explosion of the bomb, additional aircraft will accompany
the airplane carrying the bomb. The observing planes will
stay several miles distant from the point of impact of the
bomb.

2. Additional bombs will be delivered on the above
targets as soon as made ready by the project staff. Further
instructions will be issued concerning targets other than
those listed above.

3. Discussion of any and all information concerning
the use of the weapon against Japan is reserved to the
Secretary of War and the President of the United States.
No communiques on the subject or releases of information
will be issued by Commanders in the field without specific
prior authority. Any news stories will be sent to the War
Department for specific clearance.

4. The foregoing directive is issued to you by direc-
tion and with the approval of the Secretary of War and of
the Chief of Staff, USA. It is desired that you personally
deliver one copy of this directive to General MacArthur and
one copy to Admiral Nimitz for their information.

(Sgd) THOS. T. HANDY

THOS. T. HANDY
General, G.S.C.
Acting Chief of Staff

copy for General Groves

http://www.dannen.com/decision/handy.html

So you see, moonbat, we did intentionally kill vast numbers of Japanese civilians. This leads to Heads-up # 2: War is hell. Pure hell. Civilians die. Often in great numbers. And in horrible ways.

Heads-up # 3: Coulter was advocating that we fight this war the way wars are supposed to be fought - in a way that is most expeditious and assures your side of the least possible casualties. The A-bombs were horrible but saved far more lives - Japanese as well as US forces - if we had invaded.

Anyway, by your criteria, this nation is dead, and it died before Coulter was even born. Surely your shame at being a citizen of such an evil country must compel you to leave it. What's that? Ohhhhhh, you want to change it from within. I see... You're just another coward moonbat hypocrite, nothing more.

Segue to Bitstream, Doc Vodka, Zzztroll and other moonbats claiming Bush or evil necon Klannish altered the National Archives.....

This really shows that hapa is a fascist who doesn't give a damn to loss of human lives. Are all conservatives this bad?

The selection of the targets for the atomic bombs was based on "military" considerations, not intent to kill civilians.
http://www.atomicarchive.com/Docs/MED/med_chp5.shtml

1. Since the atomic bomb was expected to produce its greatest amount of damage by primary blast effect, and next greatest by fires, the targets should contain a large percentage of closely-built frame buildings and other construction that would be most susceptible to damage by blast and fire.
2. The maximum blast effect of the bomb was calculated to extend over an area of approximately 1 mile in radius; therefore the selected targets should contain a densely built-up area of at least this size.
3. The selected targets should have a high military strategic value.
4. The first target should be relatively untouched by previous bombing, in order that the effect of a single atomic bomb could be determined.

No one knew at the time how big the blast would be, and no one (except perhaps a few scientists) knew about the radiation effects.

Otherwise there would be sufficient ground for trying these guys for war crimes.

Firebombing Tokyo was wrong. It did not help to win the war. Carrying out another war in the same way will not help us win another war either. Just make us all war criminals.

Obviously your conservative ideology matters more to you than human lives. Perhaps Hitler is also your hero?

BTW, try read the stuff you post, idiot. They want "intelligent" Japanese to witness the power of the bomb. Dead people can't be witnesses. The discussion was focused on maximizing damage to buildings, not on maximizing civilian deaths.

 

[acronym]

Quote from hapaboy:

Crikey! What a beauty!

Ouch.



This simplistic rebuttal, this obviously targeted dismissive slur, suggest's hap has discovered my achilles heel.................

I COULD run out of topical quips, one day, but he will NEVER run out of copy-paste articles, roughly pertaining to what the reader must construe as "indicative" of his viewpoint, without once needing to put his actual thoughts in writing.

A marvellous, industrial, clinical, mechanical efficiency, against which a poor luddite, an amateur wordsmith simply cannot compete.

The cause is lost for zion, the machines are in control.......retreat to the lower levels.



Does Petreaus wear a rug? I could swear that's a toupe, just doesnt look right anyhoo

 

[brotherben]

HRC will overrun the White House with the extremist gays as her college roommate will select them for her one by one....she will be the biggest disaster known to man as Prez...America is dumb enough to elect her...and slick again....Charlie Trie...Norman Hsu..look at pardon list....and the list goes on.....Bill and Hill will tax you out of business .......

 

[hapaboy]

Quote from james_bond_3rd:

This really shows that hapa is a fascist who doesn't give a damn to loss of human lives. Are all conservatives this bad?

More moonbat narrow-mindedness. You are a pacifist, ergo, no matter if someone like myself advocates doing what is necessary to win the war and minimize American casualties, your only rebuttal is crying "Fascist!" and labeling me as someone who cares nothing about human life. What a knob you are.

The selection of the targets for the atomic bombs was based on "military" considerations, not intent to kill civilians.
http://www.atomicarchive.com/Docs/MED/med_chp5.shtml

1. Since the atomic bomb was expected to produce its greatest amount of damage by primary blast effect, and next greatest by fires, the targets should contain a large percentage of closely-built frame buildings and other construction that would be most susceptible to damage by blast and fire.
2. The maximum blast effect of the bomb was calculated to extend over an area of approximately 1 mile in radius; therefore the selected targets should contain a densely built-up area of at least this size.
3. The selected targets should have a high military strategic value.
4. The first target should be relatively untouched by previous bombing, in order that the effect of a single atomic bomb could be determined.

You hang yourself with your own quotes. Good grief, # 1 above says "the targest should contain a large percentage of closely-built frame buildings and other construction that would be most susceptible to damage by blast and fire." Guess what are in those "closely-built frame buildings and other construction"? If you guessed "civilians," you win the day's moonbat Bozo Prize!!

And I notice you simply dismiss the quotes I posted about the Target Committee meetings and the war order which clearly illustrate that military targeting was second, if anything, to demonsrating the power of the weapon and attaining the maximum psychological effect against Japan.

And hey, genius, if civilians weren't purposely targeted, why the hell didn't the US demonstrate the power of the bomb on an uninhabited area?

No one knew at the time how big the blast would be, and no one (except perhaps a few scientists) knew about the radiation effects.

Otherwise there would be sufficient ground for trying these guys for war crimes.

After the Los Alamo tests you're going to have the gall to say that the US thought the blast wasn't going to be devastating to the civilian population? Knob...

Firebombing Tokyo was wrong. It did not help to win the war.

The piece d' resistance: That's right, we firebombed Tokyo!! Another example of us purposely targeting civilians! Thanks for posting one of many examples that illustrate we did indeed target civilians.

Carrying out another war in the same way will not help us win another war either. Just make us all war criminals.

Spoken like a true moonbat pacifist. You would clearly prefer that, if total non-violence cannot be achieved, then better to use tactics by which the evil imperialist oil-hungry American soldiers die in greater numbers.

Obviously your conservative ideology matters more to you than human lives. Perhaps Hitler is also your hero?

More idiocy. Clearly your heroes are Chomsky, Zinn, Code Pink, MoveOn, and the other defeatist US-haters.

BTW, try read the stuff you post, idiot. They want "intelligent" Japanese to witness the power of the bomb. Dead people can't be witnesses. The discussion was focused on maximizing damage to buildings, not on maximizing civilian deaths.

Try reading the stuff I post, idiot. They clearly state that it is the Kyoto having the "intelligent" Japanese "and hence better able to appreciate the significance of the weapon."

And hey, how's this for a revelation: witnesses come from the survivor ranks, you dolt. It wasn't as if they planned on zero civilian casualties so that the entire populace could stare up at the sky and say, "Wow, that's a massive mushroom cloud. Let's surrender unless it's used on us."

You're really a complete knob.

 

[hapaboy]

Quote from acronym:

Ouch.



This simplistic rebuttal, this obviously targeted dismissive slur, suggest's hap has discovered my achilles heel.................

I COULD run out of topical quips, one day, but he will NEVER run out of copy-paste articles, roughly pertaining to what the reader must construe as "indicative" of his viewpoint, without once needing to put his actual thoughts in writing.

A marvellous, industrial, clinical, mechanical efficiency, against which a poor luddite, an amateur wordsmith simply cannot compete.

The cause is lost for zion, the machines are in control.......retreat to the lower levels.

Crikey! You whine like a sheila!