Mousavi wins Iran election with 65 percent of vote

[monty21]

Quote from MGB:

Let Israel fend for itself? Let's think this through... What are the pros and cons?

PROS:
1) America doesn't contribute +$1 Billion to Israel.

CONS:
1) The actions of Israel and Arabs countries could destabilize the Middle East and destabilize the oil industry, which in turn will destabilize the economy in America (worse than 9/11).

Contributing +$1 Billion to keep Israel in our pocket allows us to have a $13 Trillion economy.

There are much deeper issues to consider than "ideal" ways of doing things. Some decisions are not as easy as they appear.

I beg to differ... I think if Israel didn't exist (as solely a Jewish organized state that marginalizes the Muslims that lived their prior to WWII) the Middle East would be far more stable. Also, the oil is in Saudi Arabia and not Israel. I don't think the price of oil is correlated to the conflicts between Israel and Palestine/Arab world.

The issues of Arab nations to Israel will only have short-term effects on crude oil... it won't drastically effect supply/demand and output. OPEC has a far greater influence over that.

Let's invest in some newer forms of energy anyway for a change. Something renewable would be nice. Unfortunately when XOM and other oil company's are so huge, its tough to get rid of all the oil lobbyists in Washington.

BTW, why is Egypt the 2nd recipient of US aid? You know Israel demolished Egypt in the 7 day war. Is the US arming both countries to ensure future conflicts?

 

[monty21]

Quote from gigsup:

Better check on Sweden. Their Islamic popuulation has skyrocketed fom what is reported.

What... skyrocketed to 3%?

 

[monty21]

Quote from Lucrum:

This seems an appropriate location for you.


76� 5′ 0″ S, 168� 19′ 0″ E

Franklin Island?

I would prefer Iceland! It's a shame some towns bought US subprime-mortgage bonds for their pensions.

 

[gigsup]

Quote from monty21:

What... skyrocketed to 3%?

4% as of 2000. Do you think it has risen in 9 years?

 

[jem]

its odd to see someone say the reformation caused the establishment of a secular state and at the same time not give credit to that state as being Christian leaning?

Besides the secular state set up in america actually was set up so that the states not the federal goverment could continue to have ties to religion and at the same time allow anyone to practice or not practice as they saw fit.

Read your history books.
The majority of states taught religion in public schools required beliefs in God to hold public office and some even had state supported churches.

This secular bullshit is the utopian dream that failed in its communist incarnation and now they are trying it again.

yeah the U.S. is performing real well since the U.S. supreme court began dismantling ties to religion in the 1950s.

I can't wait to see the results of another 50 years of secularism.


Take God out of the schools and those kids grow up to wall street mortgage and CDO sellers. (that was a joke.)

 

[MGB]

Quote from monty21:
I beg to differ... I think if Israel didn't exist (as solely a Jewish organized state that marginalizes the Muslims that lived their prior to WWII) the Middle East would be far more stable.

We can play the "if" game all day long but it doesn't solve the problem. How do you solve the problem today?

Even without the State of Israel, the Middle East would still be unstable. I say this because in Arabs countries, you have many Arabs tribes that constantly bicker and fight each other.

Israel is a common enemy for Arab tribes. Without Israel, various Arabs tribes would fight each other.

For example, Iran and Iraq had a war with other. Both countries are predominantly Arab so why did they fight each other? Because it was primarily a fight between Sunni Arabs and Shiite Arabs, two different tribes.

Understanding Middle East politics requires a very good understanding of tribes and tribal history.

Also, the oil is in Saudi Arabia and not Israel. I don't think the price of oil is correlated to the conflicts between Israel and Palestine/Arab world.

I know that the oil is in Saudi Arabia and in many other countries. I've simply observed that the price of oil goes up whenever there's a new military conflict, including conflicts between Israel and Palestinians/Arabs.

Let's invest in some newer forms of energy anyway for a change. Something renewable would be nice. Unfortunately when XOM and other oil company's are so huge, its tough to get rid of all the oil lobbyists in Washington.

I agree, let's invest in alternative forms of energy.

BTW, why is Egypt the 2nd recipient of US aid? You know Israel demolished Egypt in the 7 day war. Is the US arming both countries to ensure future conflicts?

Me too, I was wondering why Egypt is the 2nd largest recipient of US aid.

 

[monty21]

Quote from MGB:

We can play the "if" game all day long but it doesn't solve the problem. How do you solve the problem today?

Even without the State of Israel, the Middle East would still be unstable. I say this because in Arabs countries, you have many Arabs tribes that constantly bicker and fight each other.

Israel is a common enemy for Arab tribes. Without Israel, various Arabs tribes would fight each other.

For example, Iran and Iraq had a war with other. Both countries are predominantly Arab so why did they fight each other? Because it was primarily a fight between Sunni Arabs and Shiite Arabs, two different tribes.

Understanding Middle East politics requires a very good understanding of tribes and tribal history.

That's a good point... Iran and Iraq have obviously been historic rivals.

Also... In Iraq alone there are the Kurds, Shiites and Sunnis all fighting for power. The Kurds want their own state within Iraq borders too.

 

[MGB]

Quote from jem:
Besides, the secular state set up in america actually was set up so that the states not the federal goverment could continue to have ties to religion and at the same time allow anyone to practice or not practice as they saw fit.

Agreed, the separate of Church and State is at the Federal level and it really means, "separate of Church and Federal". A majority of State Constitutions have "God" in their bylaws. Pick any State and you'll find an endorsement of "God" in their constitutions.

http://www.usconstitution.net/states_god.html

Read your history books.

I did

The majority of states taught religion in public schools required beliefs in God to hold public office and some even had state supported churches.

Back in the old days in New England, kids were taught by their parents ("the original home schooling concept"). Eventually, parents combined their talents to teach several kids together. Naturally, parents taught their beliefs. Eventually, this approach became formalized through local school boards. So yes, in the very beginning, school boards endorsed religious teachings in the classroom.

 

[MGB]

Quote from monty21:
That's a good point... Iran and Iraq have obviously been historic rivals.

Also... In Iraq alone there are the Kurds, Shiites and Sunnis all fighting for power. The Kurds want their own state within Iraq borders too.

Exactly.

From an Arab's point of view, it's not about States, it's all about Tribes.

 

[monty21]

Pro-Ahmadinejad Rally Pics Doctored to Appear Larger: