Most Dangerous? American Black's or Iraqis

[spect8or]

Quote from traderNik:
Why am I yet to hear one word of this 'viable framework'? If it could be substituted for my complacent statistics-based racism, why wouldn't you alert me to it?

The framework I was referring to was your own, Dan. There are plenty of other frameworks out there.

Oh no you weren't. You stated clearly that you had a 'viable framework' that was an alternative to my statistics based views. Why don't you explain it me? I mean, it galls you that I'm such a supposed 'racist' and yet you won't make the slightest effort to reform me.

Dan, you often ask me why I don't provide you with any alternatives to your 'philosophy'. I know you don't understand this, but the para above is all the reason I will ever need. I know that there exist people who seem completely normal on the outside, but who have absolutely no feeling of empathy at all, even for their parents and children.

Nik, it strikes me that you have no alternative. You simply rant and rave about how grotesque you find me. If you did have an alternative, I really think you would have offered it by now.

I offer you another chance. I propose we end welfare to single mothers. That would cause some pain in the short term, but in the long run it would lessen the numbers of the lowest classes. If we don't, we can confidently expect the numbers of the lowest classes to continue growing. Combined with ongoing 3rd world immigration, we can confidently expect the further 'Brazilification' of the US and similar countries. Your alternative is?

In the same way, you seem to be completely unaware of the basic flaw in this argument.

If it's so basic, why don't you point out. If not to reform me, simply for my edificiation. In fact, Nicky, I implore you to.

You have no valid reason to question my intelligence. That you do so indicates that you are content making arguments without foundation.

This my friend is the pot calling the kettle black. Just track back through your replies to my posts and consider whether your relentless name calling and innuendo is not at least suggestive of low intelligence; certainly it's suggestive of intellectual bankruptcy.

I have made suggestions about your intelligence based on the grammatical and spelling errors in your posts, which indicate that you are either ill-educated, inapt, or that English is not your mother tongue.

No you haven't. You were calling me a dullard well before your latest spell-check triumph.

Not that I'm particularly into measuring dicks, Nicky, or blowing my own trumpet, but since I'm slightly intoxicated and thus less modest than usual, I'll say this: I'd be shocked and dismayed if you were to prove more intelligent than I.

The implications of this last are the ones I have been most interested in, although this would disprove my theory about your intelligence.

Then why didn't you just ask me you tool? No, for the record, English isn't, or rather wasn't, my mother tongue. Those were Macedonian and Serbian. Nowadays, however, I do all my thinking in English.

My experience here has shown me up close and personal what racism really is, and it's no surprise; after all, here, you people can be anonymous.

Here? Your experiences here? On a message board? Nicky, my experiences in the real world have shown me what racism is. Did you grow up having ethnic slurs routinely thrown your way - 'wog' 'dago' 'grease monkey' - or with routine suggestions that you 'go back to your own country'? I did. I've seen it up close and personal. And that's why you don't find me on here hurling ethnic slurs at anybody or making any sort of suggestion that people be brought to phsyical harm or psychological grief based on their race. (ElCubano certainly did - 'muli' and 'jig' - why does he get a free pass?) However, despite my experiences, I've come to accept that race cannot be imagined away or made not to matter; it is a fundamental aspect of our individual human identies. Therefore it must be taken into serious consideration when mapping out the future of a nation. If you cannot grasp this then, no, you have not seen 'up close and personal what racism really is' - not by a long shot.

 

[spect8or]

Quote from traderNik:

Amazing... you actually posted the refutation of your own argument!!! Bell Curve, indeed, Dan... and what implication does the reality of the Bell Curve have for eugenics? Eh, Dan?

I'm tired of you fucking moron.

In the same post that you were questioning my literacy and intelligence you had the audacity to question why I, an 'aussie', didn't turn out like Robert Hughes. The suggestion that you study bell curves was therefore made so you could understand distribution of valued traits, intelligence one among many, amongst populations (in this case, racially related ones).

The implication of the Bell Curve for eugenics is obvious, dickwad. The more you cull the numbers on the extreme left of the curve, the more the curve shifts towards the right. 'Refutation' indeed. (Yes, there will still be people at the bottom of the social order, but they will be better people. Logic, even the simplest, is clearly not your strong point, so I won't bother explaining anything any further for fear of wasting myh breath.)

PS Look up above Nicky. Notice the typo in what should have been 'my'. I purposely left it uncorrected so you could get your thrills speculating on what a dunce I must be.

 

[Pa(b)st Prime]

Dan, your arguments are intellectually sound, easy to understand, impassioned yet reasonable. However you're ARGUING WITH A TROLL!

It's like options traders who swear over the MM's offer backing away in some illiquid strike. They're not yelling at a person. Instead they're going ballistic toward a freakin' BOT!

That's what tradernot is. He's not a person or rather he's not a personality. He's a nothing. A cypher. An intellectual INFERIOR to you. Oh that's right, inferior, superior, those are elitisms that we aren't supposed to use anymore. Wait. I hear the PC police knocking..........

 

[Pa(b)st Prime]

I disagree with most of the studies you've presented. Case in point, the "crack epidemic" as a cause of black homicide rates exceeding whites. Yes, it's clear that the lessening of "drug wars" has abetted the drop in black homicides. However black homicide rates vs. white homicide rates have been constant for FORTY YEARS! Pre-crack, during crack, post crack, blacks have ALWAYS committed around half the homicides in the U.S. each year. Any inference that crack was the relative cause of crime is a pipe dream.

Further, sure there's a correlation between poverty and crime. No doubt. But what makes you think that Blacks aren't pre-disposed to poverty. IMO the SAME character traits that make blacks engage in out of bounds social behavior is the cause of their being inhibited economically.

Is America crazy about Mexican's? These are people who often not only can't speak English, they also are not always literate in Spanish. Many Mexican's immigrating to the States dropped out of school by age 11. So they're poor, uneducated, living as aliens in a nation that doesn't really want them and yet they run rings around blacks. Look at El Cubano. Him and his family came here as refugees from Cuba with the clothes on their backs and yet started business's, bought homes and stayed out of trouble. Yet the Blacks who grew up a mile away are a Taliban like force. Too many blacks just don't have the "goods".....

Quote from 2cents:

the rapid spread of crack cocaine since the 80s is a pretty major factor... nothing genetic there...

but if reading fryer's too much of a stretch, here are a few other interesting sources:
http://www.seweb.uci.edu/faculty/currie/ anything from him... crime and punishment notably, still v.relevant as far as international comparisons...
http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/9866/9866.ch01.html whitewashing race, 2003, 1st chapter
http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/9866.html

 

[spect8or]

Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

Dan, your arguments are intellectually sound, easy to understand, impassioned yet reasonable. However you're ARGUING WITH A TROLL!

Given the controversial nature of the topic, I was willing to give him a pass. It's understandable that a person weaned on liberal pieties would find my views abhorrent. But if they're going to object to you and hound you, you expect that eventually they'll attempt to actually debate something. If they don't, well I think it's understandable that I'd get impassioned.

ddoo, now there's a man I respect. Despite finding me probably even more repulsive than Nicky does, he's only stooped to name calling on a couple of occasions, and those, I'll admit, were probably warranted. But when he disagrees with me, he challenges me with reason and logic. Or take Sparohook. I'm certain he finds me just as repulsive. But if he won't engage me reasonably, he won't engage me at all. That's all I ask from any man. Our Nicky, I guess, simply hasn't reached that stage of development.

And me, hell I'm no saint. I don't even claim to be. I'm foul-mouthed and pretentious. I'm a little drunk, so I don't mind admitting it. But who cares? I'm not asking anyone's hand in marriage here. I just want to discuss what I think desperately needs to be discussed. Openly and honestly. No holds barred. Unfortunately, I'm probably wasting my time.

 

[FanOfFridays]

Quote from spect8or:

I'd be shocked and dismayed if you were to prove more intelligent than I.

Yes, this much is clear from your posts. It is clear that you consider yourself a very intelligent man. I myself am not highly intelligent in terms of raw measures like IQ tests (although I could kick Z's ass any day).

Quote from spect8or:
Here? Your experiences here? On a message board? Nicky, my experiences in the real world have shown me what racism is. Did you grow up having ethnic slurs routinely thrown your way - 'wog' 'dago' 'grease monkey' - or with routine suggestions that you 'go back to your own country'? I did.

Unbelievable. That is all I can say. Un-fucking real. After all the frothing at the mouth you've done about immigration? I cannot believe that you actually admitted this.

Quote from spect8or:
(ElCubano certainly did - 'muli' and 'jig' - why does he get a free pass?)

He gets a pass because he's a run of the mill moron who couldn't reason his way out of a wet paper bag. Since this is my last post to you, I will admit that I do not think you're unintelligent. This is why I engage you. You attempt to frame your delusions in scientific terms, making references to genetics, the Bell Curve. There are other groups of weak-minded bigots (yes, weak-minded and very bright) who tried to do this in the past. I consider you to be the most dangerous person on this site, precisely because you don't rant and rave.

Quote from spect8or:
However, despite my experiences, I've come to accept that race cannot be imagined away or made not to matter; it is a fundamental aspect of our individual human identies. Therefore it must be taken into serious consideration when mapping out the future of a nation. If you cannot grasp this then, no, you have not seen 'up close and personal what racism really is' - not by a long shot.

With regard to your theories of eugenics, Dan... look, there have been plenty of people throughout history who felt the same way you do. Hitler is the most prominent example. I hope that you understand - from my perspective, explaining to you the fallacy in the idea that we can take a racial group, subject them to some tests and then legislate in a manner designed to reduce their population in order to serve the common good is so sick, so obviously immoral and illegal, that attempting to explain to you why it is wrong would be sort of like trying to explain to a two year old why it's wrong to throw his food around, or to explain to my dog why it's wrong to jump on my new Bentley. He is a dog, and he can't understand the human world. He is just doing what makes him feel good. You are doing exactly the same thing. I have said many times that I believe the basis of racism and bigotry is weak-mindedness, in the sense that it is so easy and comfortable to fall into that way of thinking. It is hard to treat every man as an individual and judge him 'not by the colour of his skin, but by the content of his character'. That's a hard thing to do, but I have the mental and emotional strength to keep fighting every day, to try as hard as I can. I wish I could just fall into the feather bed of fanaticism. It would be a hell of a lot easier. And that's what your theories make life, for you, Dan. They make things easier to explain and take.

This will constitute my last post to you, as you seem to be getting very upset, and I do not want to upset you because I am afraid of people like you, in the sense that you can do a lot of harm before being stopped. Who knows what harm you have already done to some poor little abo or black kid.

I know you don't have the guts to just leave it at that, so go ahead and take one more shot at me and then we can quit clogging up these threads. Or, I can quit clogging up these threads.

By the way... if I'm so stupid, why are you responding to my posts? After all, I never do anything but call you a bigoted dreamer.

 

[FanOfFridays]

Quote from spect8or:

The more you cull the numbers on the extreme left of the curve, the more the curve shifts towards the right. Yes, there will still be people at the bottom of the social order, but they will be better people.

Just making sure this one goes in the record. You might sober up and realize that you may have revealed too much here.

Goodbye Dan, and please... stay down there in Oz, ok? Your type aren't welcome here in Canada.

 

[spect8or]

Quote from traderNik:


Unbelievable. That is all I can say. Un-fucking real.

What is? That someone who has suffered through racial taunts would, nevertheless, consider race a meaningful human category?

I already said that I don't advocate purposely disadvantaging anybody because of his race. Certainly not so directly as a racial slur or a firebomb through his bedroom window. Keeping incompatible (ie difficult, if not impossible, to assimilate races) from immigrating I don't regard as directly disadvantaging them. Yes, their lives would be probably be worse by being prevented from coming to America (Europe, Australia, etc), but I believe it is a fundamental right of every country to consider the wellbeing of its own citizens before it considers the wellbeing of foreigners.

You attempt to frame your delusions in scientific terms, making references to genetics, the Bell Curve. There are other groups of weak-minded bigots (yes, weak-minded and very bright) who tried to do this in the past.

It's not a delusion Nicky, it's quite real. If I feel distinctly uncomfortable walking through a black neighborhod, with blacks staring me down menacingly, then I feel that way. I really can't control it any more than I can control feeling stirred when a beautiful woman walks past. Sure, I could repeat to myself a thousand times a day "looks are only skin-deep" and yet she'd still stir my passions. Race isn't quite the same, but it's a biological fact that, ceteris paribus, people feel most comfortable around those most biologically like them.

With regard to your theories of eugenics, Dan... look, there have been plenty of people throughout history who felt the same way you do. Hitler is the most prominent example.

Hitler's eugenics have nothing in common with my eugenics. Unfortunately, the term eugenics has been forever tainted by assosciation with him. But are you aware that during the early 20th century the most hopeful eugenicists, who honestly believed eugenics the key to human betterment, were virtually all prominent liberals?

In short for you, Hitler advocated killing undesirable people. I advocate killing nobody. Can you comprehend the fundamental difference?

By the way... if I'm so stupid, why are you responding to my posts? After all, I never do anything but call you a bigoted dreamer.

Hope srings eternal.

Actually, I see potential in you, grasshopper. But you continue to disappoint me.

 

[spect8or]

Quote from traderNik:

Just making sure this one goes in the record. You might sober up and realize that you may have revealed too much here.

Goodbye Dan, and please... stay down there in Oz, ok? Your type aren't welcome here in Canada.

'Cull' doesn't mean 'kill' you doofus. Discouraging left-side procreation (especially reckless left-side procreation) achieves the same end.

'In the record' he says. You're an intellectual crank, Nicky.

 

[Artie21]

Quote from traderNik:

get back to me after attempting 'civil discourse' with these robots for a while.

And you can stand up and call me a blowhard if you want. Don't feel bad about it. At least these guys call me names in good faith. This is all ANONYMOUS, right? I don't take it personally, because your insults don't affect me, just like my insults don't affect Dan. Pabst, they might affect, but not Dan.

I wasn't referring to you at all with my blowhard comment and I don't know why you assume I was. In fact, it was not until today that I became aware of your existence and read a post of yours.