More evidence that the gig economy is actually making people poorer

[Sig]

People with "poor" mindset will always get poorer. If you have a goal you can always make it, especially in the U.S.

That's bullshit, quite frankly. If you're born to a single black mom in SE Baltimore, what can't afford to send you to anything but the crap local public school where you're literally afraid for your life most of the time, isn't home to help you with your homework because she's working a second crap minimum wage job to put food on the table...and throw in that you didn't win the genetic lottery in intelligence and are exactly average there. By the time you're in middle school you're going to be far behind in basic education and have no way of catching up. You're going to graduate high school equipped only to take a minimum wage job, completely unable to succeed in college even if you could get in, and maybe throw in that you're now working two minimum wage jobs to help support your mom who ran into medical problems from working her two jobs to feed you so you don't have two minute to rub together to even take remedial classes from the local community college. That guy doesn't have a "poor mindset", he's just poor and stuck in a cycle through no fault of his own that offers no way out of being poor.
Sure there are lots of lazy good for nothing inner city punks. There are also a lot of good people working their ass off just to keep their head above water. Attributing their lack of success to a "poor mindset" is not only ignorant but pretty insulting as well.

 

[jj90]

I used to think it was all about the person, that if someone had the drive they could be anything they wanted. Over time I realized that environment also plays a huge factor.

This is the old debate of nature/nurture, man/environment. IMO it's not black or white, I couldn't tell you what the ratio is, but there is a ratio.

 

[Zzzz1]

That is nonsense. Sometimes great kinds are limited by lack of resources. Most of the times in business it comes down to a death match, meaning not everyone will be declared a winner but there will be a winner and a loser. A job interview is such example. The one with greater access to resources wins hands down, given equal strong will and goals. You are describing a dream world.

People with "poor" mindset will always get poorer. If you have a goal you can always make it, especially in the U.S.

 

[Michael J. Fletcher]

That's bullshit, quite frankly. If you're born to a single black mom in SE Baltimore, what can't afford to send you to anything but the crap local public school where you're literally afraid for your life most of the time, isn't home to help you with your homework because she's working a second crap minimum wage job to put food on the table...and throw in that you didn't win the genetic lottery in intelligence and are exactly average there. By the time you're in middle school you're going to be far behind in basic education and have no way of catching up. You're going to graduate high school equipped only to take a minimum wage job, completely unable to succeed in college even if you could get in, and maybe throw in that you're now working two minimum wage jobs to help support your mom who ran into medical problems from working her two jobs to feed you so you don't have two minute to rub together to even take remedial classes from the local community college. That guy doesn't have a "poor mindset", he's just poor and stuck in a cycle through no fault of his own that offers no way out of being poor.
Sure there are lots of lazy good for nothing inner city punks. There are also a lot of good people working their ass off just to keep their head above water. Attributing their lack of success to a "poor mindset" is not only ignorant but pretty insulting as well.

Hey man, I am not saying that it's easy, a lot of people suffer and they don't get chances they deserve, but come on, 70% of the World's population don't have even that. Life isn't fair for this people, but It only means that you only got to push harder than anyone else.

 

[Sig]

Hey man, I am not saying that it's easy, a lot of people suffer and they don't get chances they deserve, but come on, 70% of the World's population don't have even that. Life isn't fair for this people, but It only means that you only got to push harder than anyone else.

It's not a matter of fair, it's a matter of possible. You stated "People with "poor" mindset will always get poorer. If you have a goal you can always make it, especially in the U.S." The guy in the example I just cited is getting poorer, do you really think that's because he has a "poor mindset", or perhaps because he has almost no opportunity to escape from the poverty he was born into? How exactly would "having a goal" help him?

You come across with the attitude that poor people are poor because they have a "poor mindset" and don't have goals. Implying that essentially it's their fault, if only they had a goal like you they wouldn't be poor. You may not actually believe that, but it's pretty much what you did say. And not only is that not true but it doesn't paint you in the best of lights.

 

[Michael J. Fletcher]

It's not a matter of fair, it's a matter of possible. You stated "People with "poor" mindset will always get poorer. If you have a goal you can always make it, especially in the U.S." The guy in the example I just cited is getting poorer, do you really think that's because he has a "poor mindset", or perhaps because he has almost no opportunity to escape from the poverty he was born into? How exactly would "having a goal" help him?

You come across with the attitude that poor people are poor because they have a "poor mindset" and don't have goals. Implying that essentially it's their fault, if only they had a goal like you they wouldn't be poor. You may not actually believe that, but it's pretty much what you did say. And not only is that not true but it doesn't paint you in the best of lights.

Of course, but in the same way you can take any general statement and say that it is bullsh*t. Let's face it, the majority of people are born in similar conditions, your example wasn't entirely appropriate. And yeah I know, that you are going to tell me that there are lots of people who were born very poor but it's definitely not the majority of our population.

 

[Sig]

Of course, but in the same way you can take any general statement and say that it is bullsh*t. Let's face it, the majority of people are born in similar conditions, your example wasn't entirely appropriate. And yeah I know, that you are going to tell me that there are lots of people who were born very poor but it's definitely not the majority of our population.

Actually the majority of the poor were born poor. Since we're talking about poor people here, that's the only relevant population group to this discussion. There isn't a big group of people who used to be rich/middle class, but thanks to their poor mindset and lack of goals are now poor. The poor people aren't poor because they have a "poor mindset" and it will take more than "a goal" for them to get out of poverty. Do you really disagree with me here, you're really going to argue that poor people are poor because they have a "poor mindset" and "a goal" is all they need to escape poverty?

As I've advised other posters, empathy and the ability to put yourselves in others shoes can go a long way toward making you a better person. It certainly doesn't hurt you in any way. Those of us fortunate enough to have grown up with decent schools, parents who helped us out, and won enough of the genetic lottery to be of above average intelligence need to remember that we had nothing to do with any of that and not hold those who didn't have those things in contempt as somehow less motivated.

 

[prc117f]

Of course, we want to make sure we are doing the right thing, at which point we have to fall on statistics as well as data.

Since you seem coyly neutral, how would you address a growing population where the growth of automation and globalization may exceed the pace of retraining the workforce? Where labor demand drops to levels where a market wage is incompatible with the cost of living?

At some point the cost of living has to drop, you cannot have people earning 1950s wages and things be priced in todays prices.

 

[drcha]

Laws of supply and demand don't change. High wages for highly educated tech workers reflect their scarcity. Low wages for fast food preparers reflect their abundance. Maybe our answer is a bit more birth control, and some effective mentoring for people at the bottom.

As for escaping poverty with a goal, it's possible. But only if you are not saddled with a lot of other negative factors like children to feed, poor health, poor hygiene, bad work ethic, poor interpersonal skills, learning disabilities, unaddressed mental health issues, addiction, etc. Poverty is not just about money. Many people down there have a lot of additional holes they have dug for themselves (or that their parents dug for them), or do not even realize they are in those holes. Throwing $15/hr at them, discouraging automation, and building walls are not going to solve much.

 

[sle]

Very different in the US imho where someone at the bottom is treated like shit and people believe he/she deserves to be there.

Yes! Finally someone else sees this too!

The poor people aren't poor because they have a "poor mindset" and it will take more than "a goal" for them to get out of poverty.

To quote a very smart young lady that worked with me "at the time, I would've fucked anyone to get out of there, but nobody was around". There are plenty of people that are willing to try hard and do anything to get out of poverty, yet they are still there