Morality, trading, and the war.

[OPTIONAL777]

I read a thread on another stock message board, and the person was saying that he was going to bet on a war, with options, and bet that the war was going to go badly.

On the surface, this seems like any other speculation, but it gave me cause to think.

I don't have a child in the military, but I imagine if I did have a child in the military in harms way, defending this country, and I knew someone, an American, was betting on the war going badly, which in effect means the loss of American soldiers, young men and women, that a person would be betting on that and rooting in effect for something bad to happen......that I would be very angry.

It is one thing to hedge long positions during a time of crisis, for self preservation, but I see it entirely different betting on a war, a war in which people are going to die, and those people are our fellow citizens.

The person doesn't need the money, it is just gambling for them, they even admitted as much. Like some amusement, a sporting event to them. Something to do with their "play" money.

I find this genuinely perverse, and unAmerican to be wishing in any way that we have anything but a swift and as painless victory as possible, and to be in a position to be betting on that outcome, to be desiring to profit from the misery of others in a war, is absolutely a sign of moral bankruptcy.

It reminds me of the wealthy Romans near the end of their empire, as they would cavalierly bet on how well early Christians would fare against lions, but in this case it is even worse, as American citizens are betting against our military, the lives of our boys, for sport and profit.

No wonder some people think Americans are barbaric.

If we do go to war, and I think we will, every American, even if they are not for the war should pray, or at least hope for as little bloodshed as possible. To do anything less is inhumane, immoral, and self-centered beyond comprehension.

Doesn't anyone remember how we felt when we saw the people celebrating the deaths of Americans on 911 in the Middle East? Yet those same people think it is OK to bet, via puts, on things not going well for the USA? To root for problems so that they can make money? And in many cases, these are the same people, in many cases, who claim to be patriotic Americans, can you believe that?

Is there no circumstance in which these people think anything is wrong, as long as they can profit financially as a result of being on the "right" side of a trade?

 

[DT-waw]

Quote from OPTIONAL777:


It is one thing to hedge long positions during a time of crisis, for self preservation, but I see it entirely different betting on a war, a war in which people are going to die, and those people are our fellow citizens.

It's a zero sum game, some traders have to be, (and they will be) on the short side of the market. There's nothing wrong with that, imo. They can be speculators, they can be hedgers or arbs. If you're not going to short, someone else will do it. This game is only about making money.

 

[OPTIONAL777]

Quote from DT-waw:



It's a zero sum game, some traders have to be, (and they will be) on the short side of the market. There's nothing wrong with that, imo. They can be speculators, they can be hedgers or arbs. If you're not going to short, someone else will do it. This game is only about making money.

If you can't see the difference between what I posted, and what you responded with, you are blind.

War is not a game, it is real. People are going to lose their lives, women in this country are going to become widows, mothers and fathers are going to lose their sons, children are going to lose their fathers, sisters and brothers are going to lose their brothers in this war. Not just any widows, mothers, fathers, sisters, and children, but American mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers and children.

Where is the sense of sacrifice in this country in a time of war? Here, these young men are going to risk their life for our freedom, and we are just thinking how to make money on a trade?

These young men will be dying to preserve our freedom to even be able to be traders, and all we care about is a zero sum game?

Speculating on the death of American soldiers in a war that goes badly for America, in the name of profit, in a time where the USA is at war, unless that profit is for donation to the families of the victims of the war, is from my perspective as low as human beings can sink.

If you can rationalize away this truth, in the name of your own profits and comfort beyond your daily living, God help you.

Being a trader for survival, because it is how you make a living, is one thing. We need undertakers, but the thought of an undertaker hoping people die in a war to increase their profit is revolting and repulsive to nearly all decent human beings.

Those who find pleasure in, and are rooting for the Americans to perform poorly in a war, so that the market goes down, so that you can make money, are seditious in nature and should be viewed as an enemy of the state.

This isn't the like some weekend football game to bet on, this is a war!

For God's sake man, don't you see the difference?

 

[daniel_m]

the way i see it, some things are gonna take place regardless of what i think about them. so obviously i'm not going to go around crying over every single ufortunate/undesirable event that occurs in the world. (and to be quite honest, i don't consider a couple hundred dead americans -- dead americans who were all too aware of the risks when they joined the armed forces in the first place -- to be all that great of a tragedy.)

in any case, whether a trader is bullish or bearish on the war is obviously not going to have any effect on the outcome of it. whether or not joe trader sitting in front of his pc is cheering on the americans, or hoping for their downfall really doesn't have any bearing at all on what is actually going to happen. (unless the troops somehow heard about it and lost their morale blah blah.. obviously not going to happen)

so basically you want everyone to agree with you that the fact that some americans might die is just such a huge tragedy that everyone must be as overwhelmed with emotion and national pride as you are otherwise they are being 'immoral'. to borrow a term from you: insufferable.

might be high time you grew up optional. just because someone might not share your sensitivities doesn't make them immoral or 'bad' or even 'unamerican'.

Quote from OPTIONAL777:

War is not a game, it is real. People are going to lose their lives, women in this country are going to become widows, mothers and fathers are going to lose their sons, children are going to lose their fathers, sisters and brothers are going to lose their brothers in this war. Not just any widows, mothers, fathers, sisters, and children, but American mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers and children.

gimme a break... what the fuck is so special about american lives? (above and beyond any others)

i would say i admire your national pride but i'd be lying. i detest national pride.

 

[daniel_m]

Quote from OPTIONAL777:



Speculating on the death of American soldiers in a war that goes badly for America, in the name of profit, in a time where the USA is at war, unless that profit is for donation to the families of the victims of the war, is from my perspective as low as human beings can sink.

what is so different about doing that and speculating that a company will go bust (lotsa hardship for lotsa people there too, you might even say more so)?

i bet you were busy spamming the "don't sell stocks" emails after 9.11 right?

 

[OPTIONAL777]

Quote from daniel_m:

(and to be quite honest, i don't consider a couple hundred dead americans -- dead americans who were all too aware of the risks when they joined the armed forces in the first place -- to be all that great of a tragedy.)

 

[OPTIONAL777]

Quote from daniel_m:

gimme a break... what the fuck is so special about american lives?

 

[FRuiTY PeBBLe]

Well, we all are human beings, so daniel_m has a point (and I'm an American). War is never a nice thing, but sometimes it's necessary.

PeBBLe

 

[OPTIONAL777]

Quote from FRuiTY PeBBLe:

Well, we all are human beings, so daniel_m has a point (and I'm an American). War is never a nice thing, but sometimes it's necessary.

PeBBLe

Were his friends and family at the wrong end of a gun, and a man was about to kill them, and the killer laughed, "what is so special about their lives?" I doubt daniel_m would be so cavalier with his comments.

 

[candletrader]

The only good thing about this war from my perspective is that it will increase my profitability, by increasing volatility... so I will profit nicely from the market impact of the war, even though I don't agree with the war...