and....if I am forced to buy higher than I want then I definitely stop out on that. I learned that lesson the hard way 
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Money Mgmt beats Stops Everytime - Example
- Thread starter ProfitTakgFool
- Start date
Ok middle of august works. I don't trade the ES, but i have no problem doing it. (don't daytrade much anymore).
I say we give a middle-man the password to 2 demo accounts and do it that way.
We could do real money, but we need to figure out how a third party can keep track of it.
I do have to admit that when I was daytrading I was doing some fading (rarely) at certain points so you need to let me know if i'm held strickly to trend-following. I don't want to seem like too big of a hypocrite.
UNLESS you want to do position trades. I wouldn't mind that either.
I say we give a middle-man the password to 2 demo accounts and do it that way.
We could do real money, but we need to figure out how a third party can keep track of it.
I do have to admit that when I was daytrading I was doing some fading (rarely) at certain points so you need to let me know if i'm held strickly to trend-following. I don't want to seem like too big of a hypocrite.
UNLESS you want to do position trades. I wouldn't mind that either.
JWN short
IMAX long
A few examples of the strength/weakness I trade. Fixed stops on each.
I would prefer closer to 52-week highs for something like IMAX, but with this market it's slim pickings.
IMAX long
A few examples of the strength/weakness I trade. Fixed stops on each.
I would prefer closer to 52-week highs for something like IMAX, but with this market it's slim pickings.
Demo account sounds like a good idea. That way each starts with a fixed amount of money and whoever has the most after 5 days wins. You could trend follow, fade, scalp, whatever fits your style.
Quote from athlonmank8:
Ok middle of august works. I don't trade the ES, but i have no problem doing it. (don't daytrade much anymore).
I say we give a middle-man the password to 2 demo accounts and do it that way.
We could do real money, but we need to figure out how a third party can keep track of it.
I do have to admit that when I was daytrading I was doing some fading (rarely) at certain points so you need to let me know if i'm held strickly to trend-following. I don't want to seem like too big of a hypocrite.
UNLESS you want to do position trades. I wouldn't mind that either.
Profit-
I would strongly urge you to consider "letting them run"....otherwise, you haven't accounted for a "Black Swan" event in which a string of uncontrollable losses wipes out your profits.
In my early days I was on a "string"..that's all it is..a "string" of 90% winners for many many months.....then the unexpected happened. I had to learn the hard way that one must always let the winners run when averaging down because the markets are constantly changing and WILL surprise you eventually.
I would strongly urge you to consider "letting them run"....otherwise, you haven't accounted for a "Black Swan" event in which a string of uncontrollable losses wipes out your profits.
In my early days I was on a "string"..that's all it is..a "string" of 90% winners for many many months.....then the unexpected happened. I had to learn the hard way that one must always let the winners run when averaging down because the markets are constantly changing and WILL surprise you eventually.
Profit good topic by the way. I am a currency trader and I tried the no stop and it worked, temporarily that is. In trying the no stop technique I was able to grow the account rather quickly, but lost half the account on a breakout of major resistance. A lot of hard work and profitable trading gone in one day!!! Luckily for me it was a demo account as I was testing a new system. If that would of been a real account I would of truly been pissed, not because of the money lost but because of the time lost. Money you can earn back but time you lose forever. And in the money game we are all playing, we all know time = money. As it relates to currency trading, cut the losses short and there is no crime in re-entering the market, preferably at a better price or admit you're wrong and trade the correct direction of money flow(trend). I spent over 6 hours this weekend going over my trade numbers trying to determine what is the optimal stop loss for my system i'm developing. Is it better to make stops optimal for the trade system or the money management system? My analysis based on what i am doing was it was better to adjust the hard stop losses of trading not to fit the trade system but to fit the money management system. At this point in my trading career, I am a better trader than money manager, so there for I played to my current strength of trading around the hard stop loss so my account grows more effectively(without large drawdowns).
And a big THANK YOU to Cabletrader. He knows why.
And a big THANK YOU to Cabletrader. He knows why.
I actually do on occasion, depending on the behavior of the market. I'll do something like take 80% off at 2 points, take another 10% off at 3 or 4 and let the rest go, see what happens.
I hear you on the black swan. I ran into one in the early part of my futures trading experience. It wasn't based on something unexpected but rather, on a little inexperience and a lot of stupidity.
I hear you on the black swan. I ran into one in the early part of my futures trading experience. It wasn't based on something unexpected but rather, on a little inexperience and a lot of stupidity.
Quote from monti1a:
Profit-
I would strongly urge you to consider "letting them run"....otherwise, you haven't accounted for a "Black Swan" event in which a string of uncontrollable losses wipes out your profits.
In my early days I was on a "string"..that's all it is..a "string" of 90% winners for many many months.....then the unexpected happened. I had to learn the hard way that one must always let the winners run when averaging down because the markets are constantly changing and WILL surprise you eventually.
I did exactly what you did. Back test entries and search for optimal stop level. The answer I got was, "WayTF down there!" I couldn't find anything that was reasonbly close that didn't reduce the edge so I keep them far away.
I'd have to write a book on my method to explain it fully but briefly, I'm trading very small position sizes relative to my account size and I measure the amount of risk I take on each trade and each day for the past 4 years. I have predefined limits that I trade within. As long as I trade within these boundaries I'm good. The biggest 1-day loss I've taken over the past 2 years is 2%. You just have to be disciplined enough to know when you've gotten beat.
I'd have to write a book on my method to explain it fully but briefly, I'm trading very small position sizes relative to my account size and I measure the amount of risk I take on each trade and each day for the past 4 years. I have predefined limits that I trade within. As long as I trade within these boundaries I'm good. The biggest 1-day loss I've taken over the past 2 years is 2%. You just have to be disciplined enough to know when you've gotten beat.
Quote from ThePipProphet:
Profit good topic by the way. I am a currency trader and I tried the no stop and it worked, temporarily that is. In trying the no stop technique I was able to grow the account rather quickly, but lost half the account on a breakout of major resistance. A lot of hard work and profitable trading gone in one day!!! Luckily for me it was a demo account as I was testing a new system. If that would of been a real account I would of truly been pissed, not because of the money lost but because of the time lost. Money you can earn back but time you lose forever. And in the money game we are all playing, we all know time = money. As it relates to currency trading, cut the losses short and there is no crime in re-entering the market, preferably at a better price or admit you're wrong and trade the correct direction of money flow(trend). I spent over 6 hours this weekend going over my trade numbers trying to determine what is the optimal stop loss for my system i'm developing. Is it better to make stops optimal for the trade system or the money management system? My analysis based on what i am doing was it was better to adjust the hard stop losses of trading not to fit the trade system but to fit the money management system. At this point in my trading career, I am a better trader than money manager, so there for I played to my current strength of trading around the hard stop loss so my account grows more effectively(without large drawdowns).
And a big THANK YOU to Cabletrader. He knows why.
Quote from ProfitTakgFool:
I actually do on occasion, depending on the behavior of the market. I'll do something like take 80% off at 2 points, take another 10% off at 3 or 4 and let the rest go, see what happens.
I hear you on the black swan. I ran into one in the early part of my futures trading experience. It wasn't based on something unexpected but rather, on a little inexperience and a lot of stupidity.
Good man...
Also, go back and look at how far the market 'ran' before coming back to your entry price, after you exited at your usual profit targets...... on as many of your past trades as possible (a sample size of 30 is technically feasible, however, I personally don't consider anything totally reliable with a sample size less than 700)....
I highly suspect that what you will find is there was tremendous opportunity to let profits run...for days in some cases...this is where the money is made..and the insurance is 'bought' to protect you from the Black Swan(s).