MOC orders for larger size

[ajacobson]

That should have said doesn't. I know of no professional who would want to lose control unless they had a benchmark to match and then it wouldn't be losing control.
It really sounds more like you want to talk about your system than the order type.
In a world where information is everything - why would I telegraph my intentions in advance. Why give anyone advance notice to lean on your order
You are leaving your entry to chance. MOC without a tie to benchmark says I want to get in/out in the worst way.
In our shop and most shops, your first MOC would mark your last day unless it was tied to another trade that needed that mark.

 

[DevBru]

It really sounds more like you want to talk about your system than the order type.

Definitely not, like i have said before stock trading is completely new for me.
The only reason i partially explained my system is because the exact entry price isn't important to me and so for that reason i saw a MOC as a good option.

Since i have been doing a lot of research lately i came across the MOC order which seemed to be ideal to execute large size orders as close as possible to the close price. It is the first time i come across someone saying a MOC is better to be avoided.

I really appreciate your opinion and it seems like i have to do a lot more research before going live. For starters i am going to look at TWS accumulate/distribute algo.

 

[DevBru]

If you want to avoid some slippage on MOC there is trading software that could be programmed to get you one minute before the close. When I mean "programmed", they just a time function for Exit.

With a MOC order, shouldn't my position be opened very close/at the closing price?

 

[sprstpd]

With a MOC order, shouldn't my position be opened very close/at the closing price?

You'll get the closing price but whether or not you influence the closing price with your order is the question. How about a LOC order instead, just for some protection against absurd fills?

 

[zdreg]

You'll get the closing price but whether or not you influence the closing price with your order is the question. How about a LOC order instead, just for some protection against absurd fills?

some well known firms don't offer LOC orders. if you need a work around private message me.

 

[DevBru]

You'll get the closing price but whether or not you influence the closing price with your order is the question. How about a LOC order instead, just for some protection against absurd fills?

I think my size will not move the closing price too much, i have been watching the market close trades and imbalances from today, on average if i would be adding 3% volume to the market close an average trade would generate around $50K-$100K in profit, per trade, some more expensive stocks with high volume much more. It might be even possible to do more than 3%, the only way to tell is probably by trying it, however it will take some time before i get there .

It also seems like the MOC isn't having much impact on the close price at all?
I am looking at BK, last 3 day's there was a market close of around 250K-375K volume, on Tuesday the market close was 1911K volume so 4 times more and the close price was 2 cent's lower than the previous candle. On the other days the change was 0 or 1 cent.

I haven't found one example yet where the market close caused a larger move then just a few cents. The largest i have found so far is FB, also on Tuesday, 4203K on close and price dropped 25 cents, that is not even 0,2%. Such small moves on close really don't matter to me since my stop is at least 5%-10% away from my opening price.

Can you maybe give me some examples of freaky closes?

 

[zdreg]

I think my size will not move the closing price too much, i have been watching the market close trades and imbalances from today, on average if i would be adding 3% volume to the market close an average trade would generate around $50K-$100K in profit, per trade, some more expensive stocks with high volume much more. It might be even possible to do more than 3%, the only way to tell is probably by trying it, however it will take some time before i get there .

It also seems like the MOC isn't having much impact on the close price at all?
I am looking at BK, last 3 day's there was a market close of around 250K-375K volume, on Tuesday the market close was 1911K volume so 4 times more and the close price was 2 cent's lower than the previous candle. On the other days the change was 0 or 1 cent.

I haven't found one example yet where the market close caused a larger move then just a few cents. The largest i have found so far is FB, also on Tuesday, 4203K on close and price dropped 25 cents, that is not even 0,2%. Such small moves on close really don't matter to me since my stop is at least 5%-10% away from my opening price.

Can you maybe give me some examples of freaky closes?

you are playing dangerously. an outlier event will wipe you out. suppose the MOC trade is 2 pts. away from the 3:59 price. professionals who do MOC orders call floor brokers to get info.

 

[DevBru]

you are playing dangerously. an outlier. event will wipe you out. suppose the MOC trade is 2 pts. away from the 3:59 price.

Why would this wipe me out? If i have a buy MOC order and the 3:59 price is $100,00 and i get filled at the close, which is $102,00 or $98,00? I would have an extremely bad fill, but then i just bought at $102,00 or $98,00 instead of $100,00, or am i seeing this wrong? I am not trying to close a position i build trough the day, i am getting in to a position.

If i would start buying during the last 30 minutes of trading and i manage to buy lots of shares during these 30 minutes and then we close 2 pts away from the last tick, that would be a disaster if it goes against my position.

Really, are you guy's misunderstanding me or am i really this stupid?
Also, can you give me some examples of extremely bad closes like you mentioned? I wanne see it

 

[sprstpd]

I think my size will not move the closing price too much, i have been watching the market close trades and imbalances from today, on average if i would be adding 3% volume to the market close an average trade would generate around $50K-$100K in profit, per trade, some more expensive stocks with high volume much more. It might be even possible to do more than 3%, the only way to tell is probably by trying it, however it will take some time before i get there .

It also seems like the MOC isn't having much impact on the close price at all?
I am looking at BK, last 3 day's there was a market close of around 250K-375K volume, on Tuesday the market close was 1911K volume so 4 times more and the close price was 2 cent's lower than the previous candle. On the other days the change was 0 or 1 cent.

I haven't found one example yet where the market close caused a larger move then just a few cents. The largest i have found so far is FB, also on Tuesday, 4203K on close and price dropped 25 cents, that is not even 0,2%. Such small moves on close really don't matter to me since my stop is at least 5%-10% away from my opening price.

Can you maybe give me some examples of freaky closes?

Why don't you build up size and see how it goes? I'd still use LOC if it is possible for you to do so.

 

[DevBru]

Why don't you build up size and see how it goes? I'd still use LOC if it is possible for you to do so.

Thats the idea, as i have mentioned in the same post you quoted:

"It might be even possible to do more than 3%, the only way to tell is probably by trying it, however it will take some time before i get there ."

I am just wondering if i am seeing this wrong when i receive comments like those. Certainly
without receiving any examples so that i can see what they are talking about.

LOC might be an option however this way there is no guaranteed fill or maybe just a partial fill, right?

The stocks that i will be trading have a minimum of 1000K volume a day, i have been looking at charts all day but didn't find a close yet where price was very different from last traded price.