Tracy McGrady had 46 points, 13 assists and 10 rebounds in his second monster game since Orlando traded Mike Miller and the Magic won their third straight with a 113-105 victory over the New Jersey Nets on Sunday.
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MJ, the greatest ever....
- Thread starter OPTIONAL777
- Start date
Quote from OPTIONAL777:
I don't agree. I think Shaq is afraid of the pain in his foot, and the fear of the long term side effects of anti-inflamatory drugs and other pain killers.
Shaq doesn't need to play another game to go down as one of the all time great centers.
He just isn't driven the way MJ, Magic, or Bird was.
Now that Shaq has permanently put to rest the "can't go all the way" rap that used to dog him, you may be right. His body has also taken a huge amount of punishment over the years. Just being that big and getting up in the morning is already a lot of punishment. Life expectancies for guys that big is relatively short on average.
In the best of all possible Laker worlds, Kobe is only just entering his prime, and the Lakers will get a couple of guys to help take the heat off Shaq - letting him fill out the rest of a long career without having to carry the entire team on his shoulders all through the playoffs and regular season. If he pushes too hard, he may just push himself into early retirement. In Laker Hell, Kobe is already wearing out, Shaq is on the way out, and Jackson is close behind.
In Shaq-Yao match-up one, Shaq had a bad first couple of minutes, but by the end of the game was dominating Yao. Since then, other players seem to have figured out how to play Yao, at least at this very early stage of his career. Basically, it seems that you can push him around and deny him position, and leave him flat-footed on defense. To live up to his potential, he may need to add some new element to his game, whether it's bulking up or improving his footwork and endurance, I don't know. O7 probably has some ideas. I don't think anyone's closing the book on Yao, but he does seem a little bit less of a sure thing than he did for a while there.
Quote from KymarFye:
Now that Shaq has permanently put to rest the "can't go all the way" rap that used to dog him, you may be right. His body has also taken a huge amount of punishment over the years. Just being that big and getting up in the morning is already a lot of punishment. Life expectancies for guys that big is relatively short on average.
In the best of all possible Laker worlds, Kobe is only just entering his prime, and the Lakers will get a couple of guys to help take the heat off Shaq - letting him fill out the rest of a long career without having to carry the entire team on his shoulders all through the playoffs and regular season. If he pushes too hard, he may just push himself into early retirement. In Laker Hell, Kobe is already wearing out, Shaq is on the way out, and Jackson is close behind.
In Shaq-Yao match-up one, Shaq had a bad first couple of minutes, but by the end of the game was dominating Yao. Since then, other players seem to have figured out how to play Yao, at least at this very early stage of his career. Basically, it seems that you can push him around and deny him position, and leave him flat-footed on defense. To live up to his potential, he may need to add some new element to his game, whether it's bulking up or improving his footwork and endurance, I don't know. O7 probably has some ideas. I don't think anyone's closing the book on Yao, but he does seem a little bit less of a sure thing than he did for a while there.
Don't judge Yao until he has gone the same nutritional diet and weight program that pumped up Barry Bonds, Shaq, and others.
Living in China, it may take several years for him to adjust to our drugs...err, nutritional supplements that add bulk.
You are very quick to evaluate, aren't you.
Jerry West was very high on Yao....by the way.
The following is a list of scoring average, minimum 400 games or 10,000 points.
Yrs Gm Pts Avg
1 Michael Jordan 14 990 30,652 31.0
2 Wilt Chamberlain 14 1045 31,419 30.1
3 Shaquille O'Neal 10 675 18,634 27.6
4 Elgin Baylor 14 846 23,149 27.4
5 Jerry West 14 932 25,192 27.0
6 Allen Iverson 6 405 10,908 26.9
7 Bob Pettit 11 792 20,880 26.4
8 George Gervin 10 791 20,708 26.2
9 Oscar Robertson 14 1040 26,710 25.7
10 Karl Malone 17 1353 34,707 25.7
11 Dominique Wilkins 15 1074 26,668 24.8
12 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 20 1560 38,387 24.6
13 Larry Bird 13 897 21,791 24.3
14 Adrian Dantley 15 955 23,177 24.3
15 Pete Maravich 10 658 15,948 24.2
16 Rick Barry 10 794 18,395 23.2
17 Paul Arizin 10 713 16,266 22.8
18 George Mikan 9 520 11,764 22.6
19 Bernard King 14 874 19,655 22.5
20 David Thompson 8 509 11,264 22.1
21 Charles Barkley 16 1073 23,757 22.1
22 Chris Webber 9 529 11,667 22.1
23 Bob McAdoo 14 852 18,787 22.1
24 Julius Erving 11 836 18,364 22.0
25 David Robinson 13 923 20,244 21.9
26 Hakeem Olajuwon 18 1238 26,946 21.8
27 Alex English 15 1193 25,613 21.5
28 Jerry Stackhouse 8 512 10,867 21.2
29 Glenn Robinson 8 568 12,010 21.1
30 Mitch Richmond 14 976 20,497 21.0
Imagine how many points Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, Oscar Robertson and others would have if they had the benefit of a 3 point field goal....or how many less the current crop would have with only a 2 pointer.
I suspect Rick Barry would have had a ton more points, as would Jerry West and other great outside shooters of the pre 3 point era.
Their numbers would dwarf some of today's "superstars."
Yrs Gm Pts Avg
1 Michael Jordan 14 990 30,652 31.0
2 Wilt Chamberlain 14 1045 31,419 30.1
3 Shaquille O'Neal 10 675 18,634 27.6
4 Elgin Baylor 14 846 23,149 27.4
5 Jerry West 14 932 25,192 27.0
6 Allen Iverson 6 405 10,908 26.9
7 Bob Pettit 11 792 20,880 26.4
8 George Gervin 10 791 20,708 26.2
9 Oscar Robertson 14 1040 26,710 25.7
10 Karl Malone 17 1353 34,707 25.7
11 Dominique Wilkins 15 1074 26,668 24.8
12 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 20 1560 38,387 24.6
13 Larry Bird 13 897 21,791 24.3
14 Adrian Dantley 15 955 23,177 24.3
15 Pete Maravich 10 658 15,948 24.2
16 Rick Barry 10 794 18,395 23.2
17 Paul Arizin 10 713 16,266 22.8
18 George Mikan 9 520 11,764 22.6
19 Bernard King 14 874 19,655 22.5
20 David Thompson 8 509 11,264 22.1
21 Charles Barkley 16 1073 23,757 22.1
22 Chris Webber 9 529 11,667 22.1
23 Bob McAdoo 14 852 18,787 22.1
24 Julius Erving 11 836 18,364 22.0
25 David Robinson 13 923 20,244 21.9
26 Hakeem Olajuwon 18 1238 26,946 21.8
27 Alex English 15 1193 25,613 21.5
28 Jerry Stackhouse 8 512 10,867 21.2
29 Glenn Robinson 8 568 12,010 21.1
30 Mitch Richmond 14 976 20,497 21.0
Imagine how many points Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, Oscar Robertson and others would have if they had the benefit of a 3 point field goal....or how many less the current crop would have with only a 2 pointer.
I suspect Rick Barry would have had a ton more points, as would Jerry West and other great outside shooters of the pre 3 point era.
Their numbers would dwarf some of today's "superstars."
On the other hand, since the three pointer was instituted, the NBA game score average has decreased. How would you explain this?Quote from OPTIONAL777:
Imagine how many points Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, Oscar Robertson and others would have if they had the benefit of a 3 point field goal....or how many less the current crop would have with only a 2 pointer.
I suspect Rick Barry would have had a ton more points, as would Jerry West and other great outside shooters of the pre 3 point era.
Their numbers would dwarf some of today's "superstars."
Quote from richtrader:
On the other hand, since the three pointer was instituted, the NBA game score average has decreased. How would you explain this?
Overall scores are down, yes. Gone are the days of 144 to 138 games.
Three theories:
1. Defense, especially the zone defense.
2. Crackdown of use of cocaine in the league.
3. Other rule changes that don't favor scoring.
Quote from OPTIONAL777:
You are very quick to evaluate, aren't you.
You are quick to pick a fight, aren't you?
I said I didn't think anyone's closed the book on Yao. And I agree with West. In fact, you may even recall the very first time you and I discussed Yao in the chatroom: I was and still am very high on his skeels. He can shoot and he can pass, he seems smart and steady, and he's got basketball in his blood. Even if it turns out that he's incurably slow and relatively soft, I think he could still end up being one of the best centers in the league.
Quote from KymarFye:
You are quick to pick a fight, aren't you?
I said I didn't think anyone's closed the book on Yao. And I agree with West. In fact, you may even recall the very first time you and I discussed Yao in the chatroom: I was and still am very high on his skeels. He can shoot and he can pass, he seems smart and steady, and he's got basketball in his blood. Even if it turns out that he's incurably slow and relatively soft, I think he could still end up being one of the best centers in the league.
"I don't think anyone's closing the book on Yao, but he does seem a little bit less of a sure thing than he did for a while there."
I will wager you that Yao has surpassed the wildest expectations of Houston and Rudy T.
People these days are so quick to judge and evaluate. Headline news thinking dominates. Say TMac goes on some scoring streak, and Kobe slows down, will that change your opinion on who is better?
Houston has very long range plans and reasonable expectations of Yao. What he showed when he stuffed Shaq the first 3 times they met is just the beginning of a long career for Yao if he stays healthy.
seemed pretty relevant:
February 24, 2003
J.A. Adande:
Air to Heir
Bryant is no Jordan, yet, but the King says he likes where the Kid is headed: 'He's getting it'
Quote
"I wouldn't put him on the same level as me. But where he's a lot like myself is as far as separating himself."
-- Michael Jordan, on Kobe Bryant's competitive fire
Full story at:
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-adande24feb24,1,5895797.column?coll=la-headlines-sports
February 24, 2003
J.A. Adande:
Air to Heir
Bryant is no Jordan, yet, but the King says he likes where the Kid is headed: 'He's getting it'
Quote
"I wouldn't put him on the same level as me. But where he's a lot like myself is as far as separating himself."
-- Michael Jordan, on Kobe Bryant's competitive fire
Full story at:
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-adande24feb24,1,5895797.column?coll=la-headlines-sports