Quote from canyonman00:
Yep, and Mike puinished them from then on. That was the year that EVERYONE took the Bulls lesson and learned how to expose the soft underbelly of the Shaq. He couldn't turn to his right (still really can't), only had a dunk (subsequently added the fade hook from Kareem's camp that summer), and couldn't (still can't) shoot a consistent free throw. As far as Orlando was concerned, he became an expendable liability. The additional tools that HIS game needed were not there.
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OK THAT DOES IT!!! YOU'VE GONE TOO FAR NOW....ME AND CUBANO VS YOU AND OPTIONAL IN THE PARKING LOT ....GAME IS 11 BY ONES, MAKE IT TAKE IT, CALL YOUR OWN FOULS!!!!!
BTW...you proved my point...all the players you mentioned were 'stars' alogn side sahq...but now they are nothing....and i keep hearing Shaq doesn't have an 'arsenal' like Ewing, Robinson and Olajawon.....but he easily outscores them????? i want my centere showing me his elbows underneath the baske...not faidng away from 20 ft.....and last time I checked, MJ had 6 titles and Shaq had 3...he's doing somethign right
MJ, the greatest ever....
- Thread starter OPTIONAL777
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We are referring to What made MJ and Shaq what they are.....And it is my opinion that they are great because of them not their coach..I already said he is a good coach, but I think 80% of the coaches could have done just as good with the likes of MJ and Shaq on their team..
I agree 100% that coaching is probably one of the toughest Job there is ( specially coaching the millionaire brats ). But please dont change the subject. You want me to give Jackson credit and I told you I give him lots of credit for leaving Chicago and going with the lakers....Had he stayed with the bulls you would most likely be singing a different tune...
Quote from TM_Direct:
Quote from canyonman00:
OK THAT DOES IT!!! YOU'VE GONE TOO FAR NOW....ME AND CUBANO VS YOU AND OPTIONAL IN THE PARKING LOT ....GAME IS 11 BY ONES, MAKE IT TAKE IT, CALL YOUR OWN FOULS!!!!!
No 2's either Optional.....
I once played with Lennox Lewis ( I was in the opposite team )...in Brickell key.....big mo fuck can play ball also....peace
Quote from TM_Direct:
Quote from canyonman00:
OK THAT DOES IT!!! YOU'VE GONE TOO FAR NOW....ME AND CUBANO VS YOU AND OPTIONAL IN THE PARKING LOT ....GAME IS 11 BY ONES, MAKE IT TAKE IT, CALL YOUR OWN FOULS!!!!!
Be veeeerrrrryyyy careful what you ask for. I do still play semi-pro and I am a very efficient point guard. I can pop the three's with the best of 'em. And for 40+ I'm not in bad shape either. At 5'-10" I scared an opponent over 20 years my junior last weekend with a massive tip dunk to end a game. I out scored, out played, out hustled, and generally diffused his game. And this kid is considered one of the top ten in the country, heading to a Big Ten college next year on a BBall scholarship. After the beating was over, I had to show him my drivers license to prove that I was as old as I said I was. I Love Challenges!!
If your point was that Shaq is pretty good, I might be able to give you that. As a competitor (in stats) with the centers you mentioned, again I might even be willing to allow that comment of a better individual statistic maker. But the true test of greatness is how do those around you shine when your talent is on display.
In the case of MJ, his Bulls teams were medium skill groupings for the most part. But they learned to become extensions of his skill set. And they openly acquiesced to his talents. No one on the team was delusional in thinking that they alone could make a difference and carry the team through a season.
That is a respect that is earned and then given, when you are deservant But look at the team individual accomplishments when he was at his peak. Every year we had one individual in the top five in rebounding, defense, 3-point shooting, etc. Not one individual other person, but other members shining and understanding their need and roles and rising to meet the challenge. The whole squad seemed to be at their peaks, and that was MJ/Phil Jackson driven.
While Shaq/Kobe have the talents, they don't have the team chemistry magic that takes their cast to the other level, and then holds them there. That is a personality thing. Neither individual seems to be a leader or real inspiration spark for motivation and attitudes. They definitely don't have the ability to humble the team members into the consistent posture that is needed to keep the "TEAM" fine tuned and at its best either. And it is that quality that is needed, especially in today's game, that makes the difference that would allow me to consider them as, "Best Ever!"
Quote from canyonman00:
Be veeeerrrrryyyy careful what you ask for. I do still play semi-pro and I am a very efficient point guard. I can pop the three's with the best of 'em. And for 40+ I'm not in bad shape either. At 5'-10" I scared an opponent over 20 years my junior last weekend with a massive tip dunk to end a game. I out scored, out played, out hustled, and generally difused his game. And this kid is considered one of the top ten in the country, heading to a Big Ten college next year on a BBall scholarship. After the beating was over, I had to show him my drivers license to prove that I was as old as I said I was. I Love Challenges!!
But dont forget you have Optional on your team......
Quote from ElCubano:
But dont forget you have Optional on your team......
I know how to pass the ball to the better players.
And therein lies the real talent of a TEAM. Something that escapes lots of players. It's not about who's the best. It's about what do we need to do to assist each other in the win. Or more importantly, what can I do to make his job easier and take the pressure off me? We will in turn make each other better at what we do. Teamwork lives!!
....the game is on.....im 6"3 ..can still dunk and also play the wing...went to school for hoops as well but got thrown out for this fire alarm incident
kidding aside....i don;t understand canyon's argument...you seem to be proving my point....MJ played alongside Scotie Pippen who was voted one of the top 50 players of all time...I may disagree with that but the guy was good and he was an incredible defender...look what he did to majic in the first finals....HOrace Grant was probably the finest all round power forward of the 90's...he could shoot when called for, rebounded and played incredible defense...especially weakside help...often ime he would guard the opposign centers...he may not have scoed 25 a game like malone, but he also played d and blocked shots.....Of the curent Lakers....how many are going to the Hall? How many are getting paid alot becuase they were a member of his team? Jones, Campbell, van exel??? He does make everyone around him better and if you look at his cast right now it's pretty pathetic,,,Samakai Walker or Horace Grant/Dennis Rodman?
Derek Fisher or BJ Armstrong/Paxon?
Rick Fox or Scottie Pippen?
I would say this: take that list of players and put them together and for the Bulls you would still have a decent team,,,,the lakers would be in the lottery IMHO
kidding aside....i don;t understand canyon's argument...you seem to be proving my point....MJ played alongside Scotie Pippen who was voted one of the top 50 players of all time...I may disagree with that but the guy was good and he was an incredible defender...look what he did to majic in the first finals....HOrace Grant was probably the finest all round power forward of the 90's...he could shoot when called for, rebounded and played incredible defense...especially weakside help...often ime he would guard the opposign centers...he may not have scoed 25 a game like malone, but he also played d and blocked shots.....Of the curent Lakers....how many are going to the Hall? How many are getting paid alot becuase they were a member of his team? Jones, Campbell, van exel??? He does make everyone around him better and if you look at his cast right now it's pretty pathetic,,,Samakai Walker or Horace Grant/Dennis Rodman?
Derek Fisher or BJ Armstrong/Paxon?
Rick Fox or Scottie Pippen?
I would say this: take that list of players and put them together and for the Bulls you would still have a decent team,,,,the lakers would be in the lottery IMHO