From: Gerald Levin (galevin@hotmail.com)
Subject: Trendfund.com Waxie Need opinions on this
Newsgroups: misc.invest.options, misc.invest.stocks
Date: 2002-11-17 06:07:45 PST
I just saw an infomercial on Trendfund.com and Michael Parness and his
trading program. I just bought the book online, "Rule the Freakin
Markets", and intend to read this first after it arrives shortly. I'm
looking for opinions on his techniques, website, programs, etc. Seems
too good to be true. Anybody here involved (currently or previously)
that would like to share their opinion? Really appreciate it. Lost my
arse in the market over the last couple years and not looking for
additional losers, I can find those on my own. Really appreciate
opinions on this.
Sincerely
Gerald Levin
galevin@hotmail.com
From: Jessie (jessie@attilatrading.com)
Subject: Re: Trendfund.com Waxie Need opinions on this
Newsgroups: misc.invest.options, misc.invest.stocks
Date: 2002-11-17 16:21:04 PST
Anything at all in trading that seems too good to be true unfortunately is.
Believe me, I am an exchange member, I trade for a living, and not a single
person I know who trades for a living uses a system that is sold to the
public to do so. If any worked, believe me, the developers wouldn't be doing
infomercials, they would be trading them. Infomercials are expensive enough
that they would provide more than adequate capital to fund any good system,
and make the developer rich. Also, it really isn't hard to figure out how to
enter winning trades, almost any system will do that for you, even a simple
moving crossover. The trick is getting out of the losers ALL the time before
they get large, and not opening trades that "almost" meet your criteria.
There is no substitute for a lot of study, a lot of discipline (100% of the
time, not 99%), and a couple of years of one-lot trading. If you are
starting with a $10,000 trading account and you are trading more than
one-lots in anything, you are almost certainly too big, and you probably
shouldn't be trading some things at all. The people I know who did those
things are sucessful, the others are gone. One of the sobering things about
working on the floor is that you realize how quickly people who overtrade,
try and make money quickly, and are undisciplined blow out. Trading is just
like anything else, if you work really hard and take it slow, you will
probably do OK, if not, you won't. If you rely on a system, then when it
blows up, you will too, because you won't have gained the understanding of
the markets that comes with doing the hard work (for example, the wealthiest
bond trader I know does all his charts (15 minute charts) by hand rather
than computer, as it forces him to follow exactly what is happening. What
always amazes me are the numbers of people who expect to learn to trade in a
year or two, when they would expect it to take much longer to learn to be a
good carpenter or electrician. Take it slow and study a lot, and you'll do
OK without infomercials.
Jessie
From: Ivanovich (schmekelfutz@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Trendfund.com Waxie Need opinions on this
Newsgroups: misc.invest.options, misc.invest.stocks
Date: 2002-11-18 12:12:38 PST
I agree with what you have said. I have traded options for some time
but it wasn't until I developed my own strategies that it became
profitable. No fancy systems, no "greeks", and certainly not the
hackneyed strategies propounded by everyone like covered calls,
collars, etc. Also one's own strategies take into account individual
risk and trading preferences. I have friends who have tried for years
to come up with a "holy grail" canned commercial system, spending a
lot of money to aquire them, and it never works.
Can these experiences be generalized, in your opinion? That is, the
only way to become a successful trader is to slowly try different
things on one's own, probably over several years, until something is
found with which one is comfortable and successful. It is a matter,
then, of creativity,hard work ,patience, and some "learning" capital.
Most people that get into this are neither very creative nor patient,
and are therefore doomed from the start. Does this make sense?
Thanks.
From: Jessie (jessie@attilatrading.com)
Subject: Re: Trendfund.com Waxie Need opinions on this
Newsgroups: misc.invest.options, misc.invest.stocks
Date: 2002-11-18 16:00:51 PST
I think you are right on the money. Some people I know trade systems some
trade discretionary, but the things all have in common is that they have
traded small over time and learned what works for them. And of course, as
you say, there is NO holy grail. Richard Dennis taught a successful,
completely rote trading strategy to a group of would-be traders, some became
wildly successful, others failed. They failed because they didn't know
themselves well enough, and because they didn't respect risk enough. I could
teach what I do to anyone in about 15 minutes (and I do use Greeks and a few
other things). But most would do what I did for the first (many) years, and
grind out good profits slowly then lose them much more quickly. I think that
some aspects of trading can be taught, but I think that "mileage" is
essential. Even if you do exactly what I (or anyone or any system) tell you
to do, when you start to lose, you will second guess what you have learned,
and start tinkering. If you have learned enough to successfully "tinker",
you will do OK, but that only comes with lots of hard work and self
awareness, otherwise, you will panic and do the wrong thing and in a few
minutes, undo a month of trading. We have all done it (some of us, like me,
did it a lot......). I think your notion of "learning capital" is probably a
necessary part of learning to trade, it is what makes real money different
from paper trading. The trick is to be patient enough to do it with
one-lots, and give yourself a few years to learn the craft. I think the
"technique" of trading can be probably generalized and taught, but I don't
think that is the case with self-awareness in this or any context.
Unfortunately, the technique is the easy part. Also, as you say,
patience..... Why people are willing to go to college for 4 or more years to
learn to be an accountant, or apprentice for 4 or 5 years to be a carpenter,
but think that they can take $10,000 and become rich in a year or two while
working at trading for a couple of hours at night and on weekends is beyond
me. I believe that if you think of it like that, you realize just how
absolutely stupid that notion sounds. I think you have the parts all there:
patience, creativity, LOTS of hard work, and I would add a healthy dose of
self-knowledge.
Good Trading,
Jessie
Subject: Trendfund.com Waxie Need opinions on this
Newsgroups: misc.invest.options, misc.invest.stocks
Date: 2002-11-17 06:07:45 PST
I just saw an infomercial on Trendfund.com and Michael Parness and his
trading program. I just bought the book online, "Rule the Freakin
Markets", and intend to read this first after it arrives shortly. I'm
looking for opinions on his techniques, website, programs, etc. Seems
too good to be true. Anybody here involved (currently or previously)
that would like to share their opinion? Really appreciate it. Lost my
arse in the market over the last couple years and not looking for
additional losers, I can find those on my own. Really appreciate
opinions on this.
Sincerely
Gerald Levin
galevin@hotmail.com
From: Jessie (jessie@attilatrading.com)
Subject: Re: Trendfund.com Waxie Need opinions on this
Newsgroups: misc.invest.options, misc.invest.stocks
Date: 2002-11-17 16:21:04 PST
Anything at all in trading that seems too good to be true unfortunately is.
Believe me, I am an exchange member, I trade for a living, and not a single
person I know who trades for a living uses a system that is sold to the
public to do so. If any worked, believe me, the developers wouldn't be doing
infomercials, they would be trading them. Infomercials are expensive enough
that they would provide more than adequate capital to fund any good system,
and make the developer rich. Also, it really isn't hard to figure out how to
enter winning trades, almost any system will do that for you, even a simple
moving crossover. The trick is getting out of the losers ALL the time before
they get large, and not opening trades that "almost" meet your criteria.
There is no substitute for a lot of study, a lot of discipline (100% of the
time, not 99%), and a couple of years of one-lot trading. If you are
starting with a $10,000 trading account and you are trading more than
one-lots in anything, you are almost certainly too big, and you probably
shouldn't be trading some things at all. The people I know who did those
things are sucessful, the others are gone. One of the sobering things about
working on the floor is that you realize how quickly people who overtrade,
try and make money quickly, and are undisciplined blow out. Trading is just
like anything else, if you work really hard and take it slow, you will
probably do OK, if not, you won't. If you rely on a system, then when it
blows up, you will too, because you won't have gained the understanding of
the markets that comes with doing the hard work (for example, the wealthiest
bond trader I know does all his charts (15 minute charts) by hand rather
than computer, as it forces him to follow exactly what is happening. What
always amazes me are the numbers of people who expect to learn to trade in a
year or two, when they would expect it to take much longer to learn to be a
good carpenter or electrician. Take it slow and study a lot, and you'll do
OK without infomercials.
Jessie
From: Ivanovich (schmekelfutz@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Trendfund.com Waxie Need opinions on this
Newsgroups: misc.invest.options, misc.invest.stocks
Date: 2002-11-18 12:12:38 PST
I agree with what you have said. I have traded options for some time
but it wasn't until I developed my own strategies that it became
profitable. No fancy systems, no "greeks", and certainly not the
hackneyed strategies propounded by everyone like covered calls,
collars, etc. Also one's own strategies take into account individual
risk and trading preferences. I have friends who have tried for years
to come up with a "holy grail" canned commercial system, spending a
lot of money to aquire them, and it never works.
Can these experiences be generalized, in your opinion? That is, the
only way to become a successful trader is to slowly try different
things on one's own, probably over several years, until something is
found with which one is comfortable and successful. It is a matter,
then, of creativity,hard work ,patience, and some "learning" capital.
Most people that get into this are neither very creative nor patient,
and are therefore doomed from the start. Does this make sense?
Thanks.
From: Jessie (jessie@attilatrading.com)
Subject: Re: Trendfund.com Waxie Need opinions on this
Newsgroups: misc.invest.options, misc.invest.stocks
Date: 2002-11-18 16:00:51 PST
I think you are right on the money. Some people I know trade systems some
trade discretionary, but the things all have in common is that they have
traded small over time and learned what works for them. And of course, as
you say, there is NO holy grail. Richard Dennis taught a successful,
completely rote trading strategy to a group of would-be traders, some became
wildly successful, others failed. They failed because they didn't know
themselves well enough, and because they didn't respect risk enough. I could
teach what I do to anyone in about 15 minutes (and I do use Greeks and a few
other things). But most would do what I did for the first (many) years, and
grind out good profits slowly then lose them much more quickly. I think that
some aspects of trading can be taught, but I think that "mileage" is
essential. Even if you do exactly what I (or anyone or any system) tell you
to do, when you start to lose, you will second guess what you have learned,
and start tinkering. If you have learned enough to successfully "tinker",
you will do OK, but that only comes with lots of hard work and self
awareness, otherwise, you will panic and do the wrong thing and in a few
minutes, undo a month of trading. We have all done it (some of us, like me,
did it a lot......). I think your notion of "learning capital" is probably a
necessary part of learning to trade, it is what makes real money different
from paper trading. The trick is to be patient enough to do it with
one-lots, and give yourself a few years to learn the craft. I think the
"technique" of trading can be probably generalized and taught, but I don't
think that is the case with self-awareness in this or any context.
Unfortunately, the technique is the easy part. Also, as you say,
patience..... Why people are willing to go to college for 4 or more years to
learn to be an accountant, or apprentice for 4 or 5 years to be a carpenter,
but think that they can take $10,000 and become rich in a year or two while
working at trading for a couple of hours at night and on weekends is beyond
me. I believe that if you think of it like that, you realize just how
absolutely stupid that notion sounds. I think you have the parts all there:
patience, creativity, LOTS of hard work, and I would add a healthy dose of
self-knowledge.
Good Trading,
Jessie