What if you're already wading in that Kool Aid you refer to, and don't even know it?
Mind Control 101 â Trading cults in ET
- Thread starter Rabbitone
- Start date
Some of those I work with really like the process. I do too.
My simple and uncomplicated comment to you is that you have not has the experience nor know what the long term outcomes are.
For me the heirachy of the things you speak of is: information at the top, power blow information and at the lowest, money.
Around 1990 there was a fairly good accounting of how many people were keeping three ring binders. It was over 10,000 and we lost track.
Passing it forward or paying it forward has gone on for about 50 years and over four generations.
You are an inventor; see the OP.
As I see it, information empowers and empowerment makes people wealthy. Then these people have two things: wealth and free time. They use their excess wealth to contribute to the well being of their communities and they can choose the community in which they live and have families.
You seem tuned into using people. I have sat on boards of Directors for over half of my life. Boards represent stockholders of they are volunteers (but they do get honorariums) on not-for-profits. These empowered people use ideas to create structures and processes in systems. What you describe and what comes from your mind seems to be somthing that no one would be doing since it does not work. It simply will not turn ideas or capital into useful operating systems that are productive.
There is never anything given up by passing it forward or paying it forward. It turns out to be a wiw/win proposition, in fact.
Your droll description of bits and pieces and controlling others is probably how you see yourself functioning.
It does not take brains to help others out; it takes living by principles. Principles allow things to get better by their synergism in a community. ET is a community. It has everything in it including a looney bin for loonies.
To be an informative resourse for others who become millionaires and very helpful in their communities is a nice place to be. Over the last five years it was possible to observe that happening.
Supporting the life style of professional who help others is a good local contribution. Making it possible for a professional to contribute one day of profesional sevicies is like extending knowledge and information to the powerless and poor. Ir is extending solutions to the clients who otherwise would be left out in the cold.
Why you don't get it and why you are not helpful to the needy is beyond the pale. you are a "taker" and don't know anything about "giving". someday you may find out that no one is put on this earth to just "take". we are all here to "give" to others.
Obviously, there is nothing I can give you and you certainly have nothing to offer to others.
This is a basic ATS, it seems natural that anyone would want to be part of making it to give it to others. Understand? No... Too bad....
Jack, I believe you and others are the entire point of this thread. The internet is being used by unscrupulous people (are you one?) to advance their own personal agendas. These people are coercing new traders in to believing they are trading âmessiahsâ who will lead these new traders to trading profitability (using mind control techniques I have mentioned).
The attached you-tube video will show you can a better cult leader.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnNSe5XYp6E
By the way I have trading 35 years so I do have the experience to know what the long term outcomes are.
As always, life is a two edged sword.
In order for a Mind Controller to ply his/her trade they need people who exhibit vulnerabilities that they have no addressed.
Very much like a PC with open ports and therefore vulnerable to attack.
The greatest vulnerability amongst Traders (if ET is anything to go by) is greed ... pure naked greed ... the overwhelming desire to grab something before a full understanding of the "what, where and how" is achieved.
Partly this is borne of laziness but mainly because the Trader is already preconditioned to the "me" world .... the world of consumption and therefore not production.
Hence the "easy come, easy go" world of the Mind Controller.
Imagine for a moment if people were realistic about their own abilities and therefore realistic about the requirements of a consistently profitable trading life.
Mind Controllers would find scant pickings amongst the awkward questions that were placed before them and most would shrivel and die.
However that is not the world that exists in 2009.
As more and more people lose their jobs, so more and more people offer up their slim savings to Mind Controllers offering the promised land.
Sadly, this problem within the industry is flowing down the tree from wall street to main street as desperation clouds any semblance of reality.
regards
f9
In order for a Mind Controller to ply his/her trade they need people who exhibit vulnerabilities that they have no addressed.
Very much like a PC with open ports and therefore vulnerable to attack.
The greatest vulnerability amongst Traders (if ET is anything to go by) is greed ... pure naked greed ... the overwhelming desire to grab something before a full understanding of the "what, where and how" is achieved.
Partly this is borne of laziness but mainly because the Trader is already preconditioned to the "me" world .... the world of consumption and therefore not production.
Hence the "easy come, easy go" world of the Mind Controller.
Imagine for a moment if people were realistic about their own abilities and therefore realistic about the requirements of a consistently profitable trading life.
Mind Controllers would find scant pickings amongst the awkward questions that were placed before them and most would shrivel and die.
However that is not the world that exists in 2009.
As more and more people lose their jobs, so more and more people offer up their slim savings to Mind Controllers offering the promised land.
Sadly, this problem within the industry is flowing down the tree from wall street to main street as desperation clouds any semblance of reality.
regards
f9
The problem with realism in trading (since this is what we are talking about) is that it is internally generated.
Sure, you can discuss rsi, macd, channels etc with unknown people on forums such as ET, TL etc, but all this amounts to swapping hubcaps compared to the real engine of trading ... and that is the Trader him/herself.
Until a Trader really knows what he or she must be prepared to give and prepared to do, then they remain highly vulnerable to every trick, posting and free trial on offer.
How can they sense what is reasonable in terms of input versus output when they have no sense of realism concerning trading.
regards
f9
Sure, you can discuss rsi, macd, channels etc with unknown people on forums such as ET, TL etc, but all this amounts to swapping hubcaps compared to the real engine of trading ... and that is the Trader him/herself.
Until a Trader really knows what he or she must be prepared to give and prepared to do, then they remain highly vulnerable to every trick, posting and free trial on offer.
How can they sense what is reasonable in terms of input versus output when they have no sense of realism concerning trading.
regards
f9
Mind control has been around for a long time. One of the classic techniques being applied to ET Traders on the internet (I will let you decide who I'm talking about) are parts of the psychological program called coercive persuasion. This technique is has been used by traders around the world to keep their groups âin-lineâ and is now being applied to ETs threads.
A coercive persuasion program is a behavioral change technology applied to cause the "learning" and "adoption" of a set of behaviors or a trading ideology under certain conditions. It is distinguished from other forms of benign social learning or peaceful persuasion by the conditions under which it is conducted and by the techniques of internet message and posting manipulation employed to suppress particular behaviors. Over time, coercive persuasion, a psychological force akin in some ways to our legal concepts of undue influence, can be even MORE effective than pain, torture, drugs, and use of physical force and legal threats.
Coercive persuasion or thought reform as it is sometimes known, is best understood as a coordinated system of graduated coercive influence and behavior control designed to deceptively and surreptitiously manipulate and influence traders, usually in a group setting under an ET thread, in order for the originators of the program to profit in some way, normally financially or politically.
The essential strategy used by those operating such programs is to systematically select, sequence and coordinate numerous coercive persuasion tactics over CONTINUOUS PERIODS OF TIME. There are seven main tactic types found in various combinations in a coercive persuasion program. A coercive persuasion program can still be quite effective without the presence of ALL seven of these tactic types.
TACTIC 1. The trader is prepared for thought reform through increased suggestibility and/or "softening up," specifically through suggestibility-increasing techniques such as giving the trader: A. Extended audio, visual fixation drills with graphs or trading data; B. Excessive exact repetition of routine trading activities
TACTIC 2. Using rewards and punishments, efforts are made to establish considerable control over a trader's social environment, time, and sources of social support. Social isolation is promoted. Contact with other traders is abridged, as is contact with traders who do not share the threads group-approved attitudes. Other traders are encouraged to give a new trader entering the thread praise for their insights about their trading method.
TACTIC 3. Disconfirming information and nonsupporting opinions are prohibited in group communication. Unwritten rules exist about permissible trading topics to discuss with outsiders. Communication is highly controlled. A trader "in-group" language is usually constructed with specific new trading terminology which is not part of any existing methods. This keeps âoutsidersâ from criticizing the thread and the traders in the group.
TACTIC 4. Frequent and intense attempts are made to cause a trader to re-evaluate the most central aspects of his or her trading experience of self and prior trading conduct in negative ways. Efforts are designed to destabilize the trader and undermine the traders basic consciousness, market awareness, basic trading views, emotional control, and defense mechanisms as well as getting them to reinterpret their trading history, and adopt a new version of causality for previous trading problems.
TACTIC 5. Intense and frequent attempts are made to undermine a trader's confidence in himself and his judgment, creating a sense of powerlessness in trading.
Often the cult trading leader will chastise a new or fledgling trader for not seeing how simple trading really is. This trader is made to give their remaining trading opinions over to their new trading cult.
TACTIC 6. Nonphysical punishments are used such as intense humiliation in responses about trading questions, loss of privilege of being privately emailed, social isolation by not responding to their posts, creating intense guilt, anxiety, manipulation and other techniques for creating strong aversive emotional arousals, about the traders abilities.
TACTIC 7. Certain secular psychological threats [force] are used or are present: That failure to adopt the approved attitude, belief, or consequent behavior will lead to severe punishment or dire consequence by being told to leave the thread and not come back. Threats are often present in the thread dialog.
A coercive persuasion program is a behavioral change technology applied to cause the "learning" and "adoption" of a set of behaviors or a trading ideology under certain conditions. It is distinguished from other forms of benign social learning or peaceful persuasion by the conditions under which it is conducted and by the techniques of internet message and posting manipulation employed to suppress particular behaviors. Over time, coercive persuasion, a psychological force akin in some ways to our legal concepts of undue influence, can be even MORE effective than pain, torture, drugs, and use of physical force and legal threats.
Coercive persuasion or thought reform as it is sometimes known, is best understood as a coordinated system of graduated coercive influence and behavior control designed to deceptively and surreptitiously manipulate and influence traders, usually in a group setting under an ET thread, in order for the originators of the program to profit in some way, normally financially or politically.
The essential strategy used by those operating such programs is to systematically select, sequence and coordinate numerous coercive persuasion tactics over CONTINUOUS PERIODS OF TIME. There are seven main tactic types found in various combinations in a coercive persuasion program. A coercive persuasion program can still be quite effective without the presence of ALL seven of these tactic types.
TACTIC 1. The trader is prepared for thought reform through increased suggestibility and/or "softening up," specifically through suggestibility-increasing techniques such as giving the trader: A. Extended audio, visual fixation drills with graphs or trading data; B. Excessive exact repetition of routine trading activities
TACTIC 2. Using rewards and punishments, efforts are made to establish considerable control over a trader's social environment, time, and sources of social support. Social isolation is promoted. Contact with other traders is abridged, as is contact with traders who do not share the threads group-approved attitudes. Other traders are encouraged to give a new trader entering the thread praise for their insights about their trading method.
TACTIC 3. Disconfirming information and nonsupporting opinions are prohibited in group communication. Unwritten rules exist about permissible trading topics to discuss with outsiders. Communication is highly controlled. A trader "in-group" language is usually constructed with specific new trading terminology which is not part of any existing methods. This keeps âoutsidersâ from criticizing the thread and the traders in the group.
TACTIC 4. Frequent and intense attempts are made to cause a trader to re-evaluate the most central aspects of his or her trading experience of self and prior trading conduct in negative ways. Efforts are designed to destabilize the trader and undermine the traders basic consciousness, market awareness, basic trading views, emotional control, and defense mechanisms as well as getting them to reinterpret their trading history, and adopt a new version of causality for previous trading problems.
TACTIC 5. Intense and frequent attempts are made to undermine a trader's confidence in himself and his judgment, creating a sense of powerlessness in trading.
Often the cult trading leader will chastise a new or fledgling trader for not seeing how simple trading really is. This trader is made to give their remaining trading opinions over to their new trading cult.
TACTIC 6. Nonphysical punishments are used such as intense humiliation in responses about trading questions, loss of privilege of being privately emailed, social isolation by not responding to their posts, creating intense guilt, anxiety, manipulation and other techniques for creating strong aversive emotional arousals, about the traders abilities.
TACTIC 7. Certain secular psychological threats [force] are used or are present: That failure to adopt the approved attitude, belief, or consequent behavior will lead to severe punishment or dire consequence by being told to leave the thread and not come back. Threats are often present in the thread dialog.
I have an agenda. Pleasantly It was made available by two people, my faculty department head at RPI and a colleague at IBM who graduated from MIT. We used TA to make money and passed it forward to others. Knowledge, skills and wealth are the outcomes and they were from the beginnings 53 years ago.
There is nothing unscrupulous about helping others. I do that and you carp about whatever has pressed you buttons (it is not improving knowledge and skills of trading through gaining experience).
Personally, I do not coerce anyone into anything. The market's offer is self evident; it is not complex to make an ATS that did this attached chart; and it is simple to use such an ATS. you were either on the team working with the creator or you weren't. Everyone here was given the choice.
Your terminology for those who help others and your terminology for those who do not help others but are well known is the same. You are very clear that you are not part of either group.
Messiah, guru, etc are just terms people like you make up to describe something or other.
Some of us traders happen to do very well; this is true of all fields of endeavor. In trading, there is no way to cheat and win. A lot of people who love to cheat get "educated" very quickly but that does not change who they are. They are just the lower strata of mankind.
There are very few ways to support the learningof others simply because people come from so many backgrounds and life styles.
Because learning to trade parallels learning to read, it is common to use pictures. I am including a basic one here. If a person "gets it", meaning he sees the significance of the picture, he will, naturally embark on gathering the resources to go further and learn to learn and build his mind for the task of trading.
Neurolinguistic programming is self explanatory. NLP is how a person learns to read and write, do arithmetic, and learn to fit into society. I follow the history of NLP and in particular Tad James in that field and Liz is certified in areas associated with NLP and hypnosis. I am heart smart and very familiar with the Fourrier analysis of heart function and associated equipment as a detector of mental coherence.
I follow the precepts of Stark and Stark as they apply the Buteyko dicoveries of the role of carbon dioxide and the Bohr Effect regarding oxygen depravation.
this is a well rounded confluence of considerations with respect to trading markets.
Drills, it turns out are how to have a CPM for learning to learn and get to expert trading by extracting the market offer.
The illustration appears bar by bar on people's trading displays as part of their learning process, if they wish by the choices that they have made. They add contracts as time passes. They can use three systems to process the extracted profits.
My suggestion to you is to print the illustration and cover it with a sheet of paper. slowly slide the sheet to the right to uncover and log the critcal infomation from the chart. You will see as does anyone using any method that trades appear where there must on the chart at a basic level of trading. I do 50 trades on that chart. You can pencil in the additional required trades and post them as an illustration if you wish.
you will find out that dong this day after day will not make you an unscrupulous guru or Messiah. you will just be the same person.
Of course others who have the needs (as you do) will make a person like me into a bad guy and a guru who is controlling the minds of others.
Neoxx slide that sheet on ten days of information through six levels of trading. He also made a family of curves of the yield of the ten days for each level of trading week by week and month by month. It was sumply a drill in support of learning to learn and then learning to trade. He learned what the market offers to various skill levels people have.
You make yourself into a person who has an enemy named Jack Hershey. So have many others, tons and tons of them.
They spent hour upon hour reading me stuff reading the stuff learns wrote, reading five years of the journals. They taught themselves to hate and to criticize. They learned to be cinical. They learned to go out of control and use hundreds of aliases. They learn to repeat their beliefs over and over. They learned they had to start threads daily. They learned they had to band together to fight against the enemy to vanquish him or them and stop them from taking the market's offer. They learned they had to protect the innocent from the enemy they created. They learned to complain about moderators.
These people are B people like you are a B person. I happen to be an A person instead.
What I do is support the learning process of others to learn in the deepest way how the market works. There are better supporters than me. Spydertrader is the consumate helper and he uses the medical model of learning to learn. For five solid years he went step by step in step with learners supporting them in the best possible manner.
the illustration is the work of a learner. He is an orderly vell balanced expert programmer who deals in the market's workings. What you see is the basic operation of the market and how an ATS takes the market's offer. Obviously you have a coding of this sort as a consequence of 35 years trading. On the other hand the team doing this ATS has much less than a year involved. It is version 1.3 preceded by versions 1.0, 1.1, and 1.2.
In ET, I don't see many teams at work except the B people teams who are all mind controlled by each other and some have become OCD's as a consequence of their interaction and reinforcement.
You may want to help get these guys out of the troubles they have, by learning, gotten themsleves into. Certainly I am responsible for their plight and they can't make any money in the markets. B people have a rule: they would rather think they are right than be rich. Obviously everyone gets the consequences of their choices.
In ET, its richness comes from being able to see these choices made, and the consequences appear.
I loved going through the test I was given by the team that made the ATS. You can read it. I loved the single post Spyder made to flush a B person's toilet. It is even funny that the person can't understand the print except to know it had two perfect calls.
I love those PM's when a person shifts upward to another oredr of magnitude of profits by compounding. I love hearing from people in remote places who now can send their kids to America for college. 25 exchanges are used now and the sun never sets on the SCT trading. Spyder did it with his journals. I get to take the "incomings" LOL.....
I understand.
Explain how to put up, bar by bar, the chart you see here.
Skip the "send me the ATS and I'll do it for you".
Is there a way to do it, even remotely, so the A people on ET can see it?