Military on ET, SOUND OFF

Quote from achilles28:

The US Military swears their allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America - above all else.

If we go under martial law, it means those serving perjured their oath to defend the Constitution in favor of supporting what would then be a Presidential Dictator.

That goes against everything in the Constitution and what our Republic stands for.

Im very surprised to hear you take this side of Presidential fealty above all else.


Heres the Oath, in case you're interested:

I, (name), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. (So help me God.)
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I know the oath. I was in St. Louis when I took it. I once lost all ten of my toenails on a 25mile road march. The last ten miles, I recited that oath in my head. When I watched my toenails go black, and as I pulled them off, one by one. I quietly remembered why I did this.

George Bush has done a lot of questionable things. The military has protested as best they could without violating the oath of loyalty to the president. High ranking generals have spoken out, resignations have occured.

The thing that some miss is that GW Bush is ONE president. If we in the military refused to fight for one man.....the thing is, we in the military don't fight for just one man, we fight for all the people we love. Do we agree with the president always? No. But to tear down what is presently the greatest republic in the world because of some poor decisions by our CURRENT boss would be a bit shortsighted.

Since we are talking about movies, do you remember when Maximus was dying in the arena, and the emperor asked for a sword to finish him. What did the Roman military do? If you have not watched Gladiator, I would suggest you rent it. Good flick.

America, This We Will Defend.
347 Infantry Battalion, Fort Benning, Georgia.
 
Quote from achilles28:

No, I haven't.

Why does it matter?
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It matters because it is better to die FOR something than OF something.

People are proud of service because they made a choice. They chose to be ready to die FOR something, rather than OF something.
 
Achilles, I looked into this martial law being unconstituional. Here is what I found.

Article 1, Section 9 states, "The privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it." Habeas corpus is a concept of law, in which a person may not be held by the government without a valid reason for being held. A writ of habeas corpus can be issued by a court upon a government agency (such as a police force or the military). Such a writ compels the agency to produce the individual to the court, and to convince the court that the person is being reasonably held. The suspension of habeas corpus allows an agency to hold a person without a charge. Suspension of habeas corpus is often equated with martial law.

Because of this connection of the two concepts, it is often argued that only Congress can declare martial law, because Congress alone is granted the power to suspend the writ. The President, however, is commander-in-chief of the military, and it has been argued that the President can take it upon himself to declare martial law. In these times, Congress may decide not to act, effectively accepting martial law by failing to stop it; Congress may agree to the declaration, putting the official stamp of approval on the declaration; or it can reject the President's imposition of martial law, which could set up a power struggle between the Congress and the Executive that only the Judiciary would be able to resolve.

In the United States, there is precedent for martial law. Several times in the course of our history, martial law of varying degrees has been declared. The most obvious and often-cited example was when President Lincoln declared martial law during the Civil War. This instance provides us with most of the rules for martial law that we would use today, should the need arise.
 
Quote from oddiduro:

Achilles, first you say that you are surprised at my Presidential fealty, then you admit, one post later that the military ASSUMES defence of the constitution and loyalty to the president to be synonymous(sp) at all times.
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I guess my post wasn't clear.

The Oath presumes (incorrectly) the Constitution and Presidents orders will be in harmony, at all times.

Thats simply not the case.

Martial Law is in the works. Everyone is gearing up for it - the media, law enforcement, Government, military etc.

So when the Presidents orders subvert the Constitution - to which the Military is sworn to uphold - which authority supersedes the other?

Does Presidential decree supersede the Constitution?

NO! Because the President swears the same Oath you do - to act as the ultimate servant authority to DEFEND and protect the Constitution.

Further, our whole system of Government is set up so that No Man, and No Office - including that of the President - can trump or pervert those Rights.

If any Government Agency could legally ignore or violate our rights at will, we'd be living in a Dictatorship.

Of course, that happens everyday. So some might reasonably conclude we are living in a quasi-dictatorship. And I'd agree.



Quote from oddiduro:

Contrary to popular belief, the military is not a bunch of mindless robots. There were many soldiers in the present Iraq conflict that refused to fight. Some of them were decorated Marines.
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I recognize there are many good, mindful patriots that fill the ranks.

I should say that just because many solders blindly follow propaganda, doesn't mean I denegrade their service. On the contrary, I respect their courage to fight for what they believe to be right and true. Even its a lie or a sham. Reality is in the eye of the beholder, and all that.


Quote from oddiduro:

I now believe that you are a Patriot, that fears that our President will turn on us one day.
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Not just the President. The entire Government. Along with Law Enforcement and most of the military.

You've admitted many times knowledge of the New World Order. Whether or not a martial law-type event plays into that, its clearly obvious the War on Terror is a complete sham with its open borders, new domestic spy agencies, wholesale trashing of the 4th Amendment, executive blessing of what isn't torture (child testicle crushing and water boarding, definitely no torture there), abolition of Habeas Corpus. Secret prisons. Random checkpoints and Sneak and peak warrants. Public face scanning cameras that run against fugitive databases. Give me a break.

Those same people that held so little regard for our freedoms will run the entire Country as Dictators when we go under martial law.

Given the outright contempt they've shown for the rule of law NOW, can you imagine how they'll treat the public then??

Doesn't that scare the piss out of you?

The future of humanity is a boot stamping on a human face, forever.


Quote from oddiduro:

I visited the Lincoln memorial last summer, as I live in Illinois. Many people felt that Lincoln had betrayed America when he emancipated the slaves. He caught incredible heat. They hated him.

The reason that the Union Army fought on is because of the loyalty to the commander in chief, and the belief that the will of the people lies in that commander in chief. I don't know if you know your history, but the Confederates were handing the Union Army their asses for quite awhile. If Gettysburg had gone differently, the Confederates would likely have won the war.

The Union Army knew this, but they fought on, and for what?

Because that is the oath that they took.
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The abolishment of slavery was not a threat to the Constitution since slavery was not specifically endorsed by the Bill of Rights.

So there was no conflict of interest between the solders loyalty to their President and the Constitution they swore to uphold.

Martial Law ends everything in the Constitution and spells unequivocal death to the Republic.
 
Quote from oddiduro:

I know the oath. I was in St. Louis when I took it. I once lost all ten of my toenails on a 25mile road march. The last ten miles, I recited that oath in my head. When I watched my toenails go black, and as I pulled them off, one by one. I quietly remembered why I did this.

George Bush has done a lot of questionable things. The military has protested as best they could without violating the oath of loyalty to the president. High ranking generals have spoken out, resignations have occured.

The thing that some miss is that GW Bush is ONE president. If we in the military refused to fight for one man.....the thing is, we in the military don't fight for just one man, we fight for all the people we love. Do we agree with the president always? No. But to tear down what is presently the greatest republic in the world because of some poor decisions by our CURRENT boss would be a bit shortsighted.

Since we are talking about movies, do you remember when Maximus was dying in the arena, and the emperor asked for a sword to finish him. What did the Roman military do? If you have not watched Gladiator, I would suggest you rent it. Good flick.

America, This We Will Defend.
347 Infantry Battalion, Fort Benning, Georgia.
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Hey I respect what you're saying.

And agree those serving dont have the luxury to pick-and-choose what orders to follow and which to ignore. That, of course, would undermine the fundamental structure of an armed forces and would make the country an easy target.

Even still, many people are waking up to the fact theres far more propaganda than truth being sold. And even more of our "national defense" is basically just national offense to satisfy our Elites insatiable grip on global power. Not to defend and spread those noble virtues every solders hopes to fight for.

Haven't seen Gladiator recently. They shouldered their swords out of allegiance to their General?

But that respect has to be earned. Or else its just blind faith.
 
Quote from oddiduro:

It matters because it is better to die FOR something than OF something.

People are proud of service because they made a choice. They chose to be ready to die FOR something, rather than OF something.
More...

People don't have to enlist for that :cool:
 
Quote from achilles28:

I guess my post wasn't clear.

The Oath presumes (incorrectly) the Constitution and Presidents orders will be in harmony, at all times.

Thats simply not the case.

Martial Law is in the works. Everyone is gearing up for it - the media, law enforcement, Government, military etc.

So when the Presidents orders subvert the Constitution - to which the Military is sworn to uphold - which authority supersedes the other?

Does Presidential decree supersede the Constitution?

NO! Because the President swears the same Oath you do - to act as the ultimate servant authority to DEFEND and protect the Constitution.

Further, our whole system of Government is set up so that No Man, and No Office - including that of the President - can trump or pervert those Rights.

If any Government Agency could legally ignore or violate our rights at will, we'd be living in a Dictatorship.

Of course, that happens everyday. So some might reasonably conclude we are living in a quasi-dictatorship. And I'd agree.






I recognize there are many good, mindful patriots that fill the ranks.

I should say that just because many solders blindly follow propaganda, doesn't mean I denegrade their service. On the contrary, I respect their courage to fight for what they believe to be right and true. Even its a lie or a sham. Reality is in the eye of the beholder, and all that.





Not just the President. The entire Government. Along with Law Enforcement and most of the military.

You've admitted many times knowledge of the New World Order. Whether or not a martial law-type event plays into that, its clearly obvious the War on Terror is a complete sham with its open borders, new domestic spy agencies, wholesale trashing of the 4th Amendment, executive blessing of what isn't torture (child testicle crushing and water boarding, definitely no torture there), abolition of Habeas Corpus. Secret prisons. Random checkpoints and Sneak and peak warrants. Public face scanning cameras that run against fugitive databases. Give me a break.

Those same people that held so little regard for our freedoms will run the entire Country as Dictators when we go under martial law.

Given the outright contempt they've shown for the rule of law NOW, can you imagine how they'll treat the public then??

Doesn't that scare the piss out of you?

The future of humanity is a boot stamping on a human face, forever.




The abolishment of slavery was not a threat to the Constitution since slavery was not specifically endorsed by the Bill of Rights.

So there was no conflict of interest between the solders loyalty to their President and the Constitution they swore to uphold.

Martial Law ends everything in the Constitution and spells unequivocal death to the Republic.
More...

I think what upsets me Achilles(interesting choice for a screen name,BTW), is that you believe that our mental conditioning is such that we would knowingly allow a president turned dictator to destroy our loved ones.

If you are in the field, mail call is the center of your day.

Any and all soldiers who left someone will tell you that.

So, one day the president declares martial law. But there is no clear and present danger according to intel.

I just hate to see that some here think we are that stupid.
 
Do you remember the DC "sniper"?

I remember laughing at the news, because everyone in my platoon can shoot like that.

I said that to say that if a President becomes a dictator and does not have the full support of ALL of the military, well I'm just saying.
 
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