Michael Moore opens his mouth again

[TradeOff]

Quote from Maverick74:

I had to blow your mother and I must say, it wasn't worth it. I guess chalk that one up for experience. I will never make that mistake again.

Well, seeings that my mother's been dead for over 10 years... I'd imagine it wasn't!

Next you'll be telling me how you phucked my mother blah blah blah and other 13 year old masturbation fantasies.

You mean you can actually make a post without giving Waggie a shot?? Amazing! A little ban therapy works wonders, huh.

Perv.

to

 

[rgelite]

I didn't read him the way others seem to have, that he himself prefers socialism. I read that he thought socialism might be the end result of capitalism failing, as Marx had written, and that such a probability not only still existed but was growing larger.

I respectfully disagree. If anything, and to the bane of liberals (or so-called progressives) everywhere, socialism has already proven that it is a miserable failure. This is The Left's blind spot, just as religion is The Right's blind spot. Socialism has long been shown in theory to be unworkable. And every attempt to seriously practice it, without compromising to Capitalism to actually get things done, has turned out to be a monstrous failure over the last 100 years. The list of failures is real and the body count worse than anything one might imagine (except, of course, for the body count tallied by religion over the centuries). Lenin, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, Castro, Kim Il Jong, Ho Chi Minh, and a dozen less notables including the latest thug, Chavez--these men and their socialist/communist regimes (pure Marx) actually killed over 100 million people, and destroyed the productive lives and spirits of a billion more. For generations. (Imagine having been born in the Soviet Union in the 1930's. Your life, your dreams, was effectively a big zero.)

No, socialism is already dead; it's just that some people (who ironically refer to themselves as progressive, intelligent, and elite) either don't or refuse to see what's obvious yet. If this mixed economy we have in the United States mutates into something other than Capitalism (and I agree with Nitro that we do have our problems to solve), it certainly won't turn into the system that powers the lights in North Korea these days.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/dprk-dark.htm

http://www.capmag.com

 

[resinate]

Marx arguably understood the dynamics and weaknesses of the capitalist system better than anyone. Specifically and relevant to this topic, he understood that the booms and bust cycles of capitalism compel to the powerful countries to expand markets by force, if necessary, to prevent contractions of markets and capital flow. i.e. in certain periods, such as this, these type of imperial wars are likely- terrorism issues or whatever the prompt....

Using Marx to understand the ravages of capitalism is quite different from advocating a totalitarian "marxist" state.

 

[dgabriel]

Quote from Maverick74:

April 25, 2004 -- DERANGED documentarian Michael Moore likens the cowards who murder U.S soldiers in Iraq to the colonists who fought in the American Revolution. "The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not 'insurgents' or 'terrorists' or 'The Enemy,' " he writes on his Web site. "They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow - and they will win. Get it, Mr. [George W.] Bush?" The flabby filmmaker goes on to say that the UN should stay out of Iraq because Americans who supported the war deserve to see their sons and daughters die in it. "Why should the other countries of this world, countries who tried to talk us out of this folly, now have to clean up our mess? . . . I'm sorry, but the majority of Americans supported this war once it began and, sadly, that majority must now sacrifice their children until enough blood has been let that maybe - just maybe - God and the Iraqi people will forgive us in the end."

I see you are back from suspension. Don't forget your meds!

I visited MichaelMoore.com and I can't find those quotes. Please provide a link.

 

[Maverick74]

Quote from rgelite:

I didn't read him the way others seem to have, that he himself prefers socialism. I read that he thought socialism might be the end result of capitalism failing, as Marx had written, and that such a probability not only still existed but was growing larger.

I respectfully disagree. If anything, and to the bane of liberals (or so-called progressives) everywhere, socialism has already proven that it is a miserable failure. This is The Left's blind spot, just as religion is The Right's blind spot. Socialism has long been shown in theory to be unworkable. And every attempt to seriously practice it, without compromising to Capitalism to actually get things done, has turned out to be a monstrous failure over the last 100 years. The list of failures is real and the body count worse than anything one might imagine (except, of course, for the body count tallied by religion over the centuries). Lenin, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, Castro, Kim Il Jong, Ho Chi Minh, and a dozen less notables including the latest thug, Chavez--these men and their socialist/communist regimes (pure Marx) actually killed over 100 million people, and destroyed the productive lives and spirits of a billion more. For generations. (Imagine having been born in the Soviet Union in the 1930's. Your life, your dreams, was effectively a big zero.)

No, socialism is already dead; it's just that some people (who ironically refer to themselves as progressive, intelligent, and elite) either don't or refuse to see what's obvious yet. If this mixed economy we have in the United States mutates into something other than Capitalism (and I agree with Nitro that we do have our problems to solve), it certainly won't turn into the system that powers the lights in North Korea these days.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/dprk-dark.htm

http://www.capmag.com

I wasn't trying to insinuate that nitro is a socialist. The problem is ourselves, not capitalism, socialism or communism or whatever "ism" you like. It bugs me when people try to label problems. We are the problem, not capitalism. As soon as 16 year old kids stop buying cell phones, driving nicer cars then their parents and people stop coming on ET thinking they are going to make a million dollars trading, well then we will be half way there. Personal debt is at all time highs, personal savings rates are at all time lows, plastic sugeries have never been more in demand, we have a serious problem in this country and its not capitalism.

I know what it is but I'm not going to go into because I don't want to rehash all the old arguments. The bottom line is we need to start taking responsibility for ourselves and stop trying to pass the buck on to somebody else. Unfortunately I think it's going to take a massive depression to wake everyone up.

 

[nitro]

Quote from Maverick74:

Resinate, I could if I would. I'm too old to join the service but if I wasn't, I would sign up tomorrow...

There are at least 50 ways you could help that would not entail you to join the military. For example, several private firms are paying good money to go to IRAQ and do some honest to goodness work.

nitro

 

[nitro]

Yes, you are the only person that understood what I was saying.

I am not in disagreement with you. But lots of people have read one or two political philosophy books and now foam at the mouth as if they know what they are talking about.

Go to the University of Chicago one day and sit in some of the lectures they give. You will find an incredible number of "Socialists" there, albeit not in a traditional sense. The real intellects that do it for a living are rewritting political/economic philosophy as we speak.

On any side of a complex issue, there are smart reasonable people on both sides.

nitro

Quote from rgelite:

I didn't read him the way others seem to have, that he himself prefers socialism. I read that he thought socialism might be the end result of capitalism failing, as Marx had written, and that such a probability not only still existed but was growing larger.

I respectfully disagree. If anything, and to the bane of liberals (or so-called progressives) everywhere, socialism has already proven that it is a miserable failure. This is The Left's blind spot, just as religion is The Right's blind spot. Socialism has long been shown in theory to be unworkable. And every attempt to seriously practice it, without compromising to Capitalism to actually get things done, has turned out to be a monstrous failure over the last 100 years. The list of failures is real and the body count worse than anything one might imagine (except, of course, for the body count tallied by religion over the centuries). Lenin, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, Castro, Kim Il Jong, Ho Chi Minh, and a dozen less notables including the latest thug, Chavez--these men and their socialist/communist regimes (pure Marx) actually killed over 100 million people, and destroyed the productive lives and spirits of a billion more. For generations. (Imagine having been born in the Soviet Union in the 1930's. Your life, your dreams, was effectively a big zero.)

No, socialism is already dead; it's just that some people (who ironically refer to themselves as progressive, intelligent, and elite) either don't or refuse to see what's obvious yet. If this mixed economy we have in the United States mutates into something other than Capitalism (and I agree with Nitro that we do have our problems to solve), it certainly won't turn into the system that powers the lights in North Korea these days.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/dprk-dark.htm

http://www.capmag.com

 

[Hello_Dollars]

Quote from nitro:

Yes, you are the only person that understood what I was saying.

I am not in disagreement with you. But lots of people have read one or two political philosophy books and now foam at the mouth as if they know what they are talking about.

Go to the University of Chicago one day and sit in some of the lectures they give. You will find an incredible number of "Socialists" there, albeit not in a traditional sense. The real intellects that do it for a living are rewritting political/economic philosophy as we speak.

On any side of a complex issue, there are smart reasonable people on both sides.

nitro

Go listen to Richard Posner. You might find it enlightening.

 

[Maverick74]

Quote from nitro:

There are at least 50 ways you could help that would not entail you to join the military. For example, several private firms are paying good money to go to IRAQ and do some honest to goodness work.

nitro

Actually Nitro you are day late and dollar short again. I'm one step ahead of you. I'm involved with a program headed up by actor Gary Sinise and Laura Hillenbrand, who wrote Seabiscuit. The organization can be found here:

http://www.operationiraqichildren.org/

Now what were you saying again?

What are YOU doing to help the people of Iraq?

You can get back to me on that.

 

[nitro]

Quote from Maverick74:

Actually Nitro you are day late and dollar short again. I'm one step ahead of you. I'm involved with a program headed up by actor Gary Sinise and Laura Hillenbrand, who wrote Seabiscuit. The organization can be found here:

http://www.operationiraqichildren.org/

Now what were you saying again?

What are YOU doing to help the people of Iraq?

You can get back to me on that.

LOL.

Ok.

nitro