Does Warren Buffett class as one of your "free market know all geeks"?
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=778195470&play=1
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Michael Masters (Hedgie) says Oil Market hijacked by gamblers and pumpers
- Thread starter stock777
- Start date
Does Warren Buffett class as one of your "free market know all geeks"?
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=778195470&play=1
Quote from Leonidas:
All I have are two questions:
1. Do you think we should actually enforce the position limits currently in place in the commodity futures markets? Right now, they're not enforced because of the swap loophole. Should we eliminate that loophole?
2. Do you think that actual consumption and supply of oil since January of 2007 merits a threefold price increase?
I agree with you that most of the measures proposed are asinine on any number of levels, but I support enforcing the exchange limits. Those limits were put in place to prevent what we're currently experiencing.
The rules should be enforced, just because they are the rules. Loopholes should be closed as a general policy decision, regardless of one's views on oil prices and politics. I personally disagree with position limits, but if they exist, the should not be able to be "gamed".
Regarding your other point, yes I do, so long as you replace "consumption" with "demand". Just as the price of corn, wheat, soybeans, rhodium, palladium, platinum and a host of other commodities have tripled or even more. Are ALL of them being driven by speculation? The back month contracts of oil (5-10 years in the future) are also trading near today's prices. If it was a short-term speculative bubble, wouldn't they be at a large discount? If it was a speculative squeeze, not end-user demand, then you would see soaring inventories as speculators warehoused oil.
Quote from Cutten:
The rules should be enforced, just because they are the rules. Loopholes should be closed as a general policy decision, regardless of one's views on oil prices and politics. I personally disagree with position limits, but if they exist, the should not be able to be "gamed".
Regarding your other point, yes I do, so long as you replace "consumption" with "demand". Just as the price of corn, wheat, soybeans, rhodium, palladium, platinum and a host of other commodities have tripled or even more. Are ALL of them being driven by speculation? The back month contracts of oil (5-10 years in the future) are also trading near today's prices. If it was a short-term speculative bubble, wouldn't they be at a large discount? If it was a speculative squeeze, not end-user demand, then you would see soaring inventories as speculators warehoused oil.
Inventories are and will continue to soar...And we'll all remain dumbfounded as to why prices are rising when storage levels are at 14 year highs at Cushing. Gas storage at 14 year highs. Natty just below 5 year average, but near all time highs. Sure, there's the heating oil/diesel story from China, but that's just a piece of the pie...
Investment Banks are hoarding and cornering the oil markets to try and make up for all their subprime losses. The big boys have been doing it for a year or so...
Which well prepared IB would be stupid enough to exchange their growing oil reserves for worthless paper dollars?
They have, and will continue to store it at Cushing..and pay the bill...until there's an economic reason for them to sell it..
I could be wrong...
Quote from Cutten:
The rules should be enforced, just because they are the rules. Loopholes should be closed as a general policy decision, regardless of one's views on oil prices and politics. I personally disagree with position limits, but if they exist, the should not be able to be "gamed".
Regarding your other point, yes I do, so long as you replace "consumption" with "demand". Just as the price of corn, wheat, soybeans, rhodium, palladium, platinum and a host of other commodities have tripled or even more. Are ALL of them being driven by speculation? The back month contracts of oil (5-10 years in the future) are also trading near today's prices. If it was a short-term speculative bubble, wouldn't they be at a large discount? If it was a speculative squeeze, not end-user demand, then you would see soaring inventories as speculators warehoused oil.
Bingo.
Quote from spidey:
I'm repeating myself, but John Corzine, the ex-CEO of Goldman Sachs said recently that it is speculation that has driven oil to where it is, not supply/demand. He knows more about markets than anyone on this website.
John Corzine is the FORMER head of GS- currently, he is a politician, and a hack at that. He WAS in a position to speak on these issues, but he is no more qualified to speak on them now than you are. Get back to me when the CURRENT head of Goldman issues this same statement. By the way, he made these statements while stumping for Barak Obama- not exactly the erudite exchange of ideas you may have thought. He was merely giving an OPINION, and passing it along as fact, given that the interviewer didn't challenge him on this.
Listen, he's a bright guy, obviously. He just doesn't have the information he needs to make that judgement, and he shouldn't be doing that.
Quote from Covert:
John Corzine is the FORMER head of GS- currently, he is a politician, and a hack at that. He WAS in a position to speak on these issues, but he is no more qualified to speak on them now than you are. Get back to me when the CURRENT head of Goldman issues this same statement. By the way, he made these statements while stumping for Barak Obama- not exactly the erudite exchange of ideas you may have thought. He was merely giving an OPINION, and passing it along as fact, given that the interviewer didn't challenge him on this.
Listen, he's a bright guy, obviously. He just doesn't have the information he needs to make that judgement, and he shouldn't be doing that.
Indeed. By this logic, the dollar would be really strong because Paulson says they have a strong dollar policy. Lol.
Quote from Cutten:
The back month contracts of oil (5-10 years in the future) are also trading near today's prices. If it was a short-term speculative bubble, wouldn't they be at a large discount?
Can you show me another bubble where this happened? Generally you don't get such a clear indication in my experience.
the only way to lower the prices
if it even matters ( rather fill my car with milk)
is to completley remove the industrial industry from china via bomb
+
buy our own american goods
+
stop watching american idol
and so you think you can dance
+
show the gulf what we got and drill
the fuck out of it
+
and then read um and weep um baby
we got America back say fuck the world
and live in San Francisco the rest of our miserable lives getting our drip everyday and riding around in porsches listening to WU
if it even matters ( rather fill my car with milk)
is to completley remove the industrial industry from china via bomb
+
buy our own american goods
+
stop watching american idol
and so you think you can dance
+
show the gulf what we got and drill
the fuck out of it
+
and then read um and weep um baby
we got America back say fuck the world
and live in San Francisco the rest of our miserable lives getting our drip everyday and riding around in porsches listening to WU