Michael Lewis Article on Public Pensions

[clacy]

Quote from nutmeg:

Anybody read any books on the Mafia.

Some totally incompetent mafia guy would take over a profitable restaurant or business and in spite of himself the place would make money, they'd put more people on the payroll, steal more goods out the back door, till they went bk, then torch the place for insurance money.

Any endeavor the state has run, which actually made money ends up with political appointee's on the payroll, (no qualifications necessary, making 6 figures), it's run into the ground until the Fed kicks in some money for the program or closes. There are success stories with state projects but generally ended with new and improved versions that have no chance in hell of working.

That's actually a great analogy.

 

[denner]

Quote from jprad:

Sounds good but, you're wrong.

The only reason companies started to drop their defined benefit plans is because a 401K plan is cheaper for them, much cheaper.

Second, check into the PBGC, which takes over defined benefit plans that were terminated due to plan insolvency or corporate bankruptcy and be sure to check out the limits they impose on participant benefits when they do take over a plan -- it's not fun.

Private pensions, even the obscene ones that unions are involved in, are nothing compared to the time bomb that public sector pensions represent.

I read what you wrote twice and I fail to see where we differ in our opinion on this matter. It's implied that the reason why they would drop their defined benefit plan is because it's much cheaper.

So where are you exactly finding an issue?

As for the last paragraph, that's the core argument in this thread and in the article. It's easily in the top handful of issues that are killing this country financially.

 

[denner]

Quote from nutmeg:

Anybody read any books on the Mafia.

Some totally incompetent mafia guy would take over a profitable restaurant or business and in spite of himself the place would make money, they'd put more people on the payroll, steal more goods out the back door, till they went bk, then torch the place for insurance money.

Any endeavor the state has run, which actually made money ends up with political appointee's on the payroll, (no qualifications necessary, making 6 figures), it's run into the ground until the Fed kicks in some money for the program or closes. There are success stories with state projects but generally ended with new and improved versions that have no chance in hell of working.

Like Clacy said, it's a spot on analogy. When unions demand guaranteed raises, more generous pension payouts, health care, etc with absolutely no sensitivity to the economic environment in which they are operating, then they are nothing more than a strong-armed legalized mafia.

Hell, if I were a politician I'd cite that 500 million in pension obligations due for the city of Vallejo. Meanwhile, they had 6 million on hand. Multiply that stat by xxx and we start to get a much clearer picture of the black hole in this economy.

 

[stock777]

dont even need to read the piece or this thread

you are the morons that put up with the union mafia, the teacher mafia, and the civil service mafia without rioting in the streets.

you got what you asked for . hope your kids appreciate what you've done for them

kick ass or bend over

 

[jprad]

Quote from denner:

I read what you wrote twice and I fail to see where we differ in our opinion on this matter. It's implied that the reason why they would drop their defined benefit plan is because it's much cheaper.

So where are you exactly finding an issue?

My issue is with what I quoted you on. You stated that companies dropped their defined benefit plans because it would bankrupt them and that's not the case.

If 401k plans were not created private companies would still have their defined benefit plans and they wouldn't be going bankrupt because of them.

There are still companies that have open defined benefit plans today and more than have frozen plans that, while still paying out to their current participants, are closed to further contributions and new participants.

 

[MKTrader]

Quote from piezoe:

Finally someone posting who exhibits a bit of reason. Thank you.

Nope, he was wrong and refuted.

 

[zdreg]

rhode island is the first state domino likely to fall.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/23/b...is-now.html?_r=1&scp=2&sq=rhode island&st=cse

 

[Scataphagos]

Quote from monstimal:

I don't understand why people get so mad at the firemen, teachers, and unions. What happened to free market principles and "Greed is good"? These people are trying to get the best deal they can and this is what they were given.

"Earn all you can" (in the private sector)... is sometimes thought of as greed.... but it's generally not.

"Extort all you can from somebody else"... IS greed. It's how public employee unions operate.

Private company unions, despicable as they are, have limits as to what they extort. If they demand too much, the company which is required to pay the wages and benefits goes out of business... and the union members are SOL. Public employee unions expect tax payers to pay ever larger and egregious sums to them. They are not only despicable, they're immoral. Should be illegal.