You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
MF Global stock down 35%
- Thread starter PohPoh
- Start date
Quote from gnome:
Theoretically if the stock goes to zero, should have no impact on customers' "segregated funds"... after all, that's exactly the purpose for segregation.
It's true; Refco retail US accounts lost nothing (I don't even think there was an interruption in the client's ability to trade), even when Refco went under due to massive corporate fraud.
And anyway, there's no indications of fraud at MF, although expectations for the core business itself have clearly been shoved down.
Quote from Euler:
It's true; Refco retail US accounts lost nothing (I don't even think there was an interruption in the client's ability to trade), even when Refco went under due to massive corporate fraud.
And anyway, there's no indications of fraud at MF, although expectations for the core business itself have clearly been shoved down.
Finally, a voice of reason.
Thank You.
Quote from Landis82:
And Fitch has affirmed MF Global's issuer default ratings and places the firm on stable outlook with investment grade "BBB+" rating.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080618/mf_global_fitch.html?.v=1
Hmm, but you're missing one point, see my attachment:
Moody's baby. On Wall St here, Fitch is second class.
Attachments
Quote from LaszloChi:
Hmm, but you're missing one point, see my attachment:
Moody's baby. On Wall St here, Fitch is second class.
And, S&P..
Lowered the ratings in Feb, with watch neg down.
See attachment.
EDIT: 2 out of 3 firms. I'm willing to bet that S&P will lower their rating before Jul 31... But here's the harbinger: MF apparently has some lax controls within it's internal trading division. They keep popping up in the news too often for these types of things.
Attachments
Now with all that said... I too, do not believe MF global is going to go bust. They have a serious problem with risk management and internal controls, however, so these moves in their stock should serve as a wake up call to move a little faster on getting that area fixed.
Bernard Dan was appointed the NA COO.. For those who may not know, BD is the former head of the CBOT. He stepped down when the CME/CBOT merger was completed.
So no, they may not go the way of Refco. And, they are attempting to fix the issues that seem to be keeping them in the news. That may placate either Moody's or S&P in the intermediate term (obviously, it didn't placate Moody's to do a DG today).
One has to be careful in these times. The ratings agencies are going to start covering their a$$es. It's natural after they got the ratings for ABS's, etc. totally wrong.
My 0.02,
-LC (aka CBK)
EDIT: Plus that 450MM loan line from a bank should *hopefully* put this baby to rest.
Bernard Dan was appointed the NA COO.. For those who may not know, BD is the former head of the CBOT. He stepped down when the CME/CBOT merger was completed.
So no, they may not go the way of Refco. And, they are attempting to fix the issues that seem to be keeping them in the news. That may placate either Moody's or S&P in the intermediate term (obviously, it didn't placate Moody's to do a DG today).
One has to be careful in these times. The ratings agencies are going to start covering their a$$es. It's natural after they got the ratings for ABS's, etc. totally wrong.
My 0.02,
-LC (aka CBK)
EDIT: Plus that 450MM loan line from a bank should *hopefully* put this baby to rest.
You're problem is, these scum will start spreading rumors now, and scare the hell out of you just like they did on 3/16.
This is the problem. And the authorities don't seem able to do anything about it.
Watch for rumors tomorrow. Let's see if the Feds back up what they said back in March. No rumors on financials.
No position, btw.
This is the problem. And the authorities don't seem able to do anything about it.
Watch for rumors tomorrow. Let's see if the Feds back up what they said back in March. No rumors on financials.
No position, btw.
Quote from PohPoh:
What the FUCK is your point?
All it takes is one guy..
One Leeson...One Bennett....One fucking pig, and millions of clueless sheep..
and the whole house of cards come crashing down..
Everything I said is fact...take your blinders off, Landis..
The point is, you were implying Man are fraudsters, yet you didn't cite any evidence. Allegations like that need to be backed up.
Refco was an accounting fraud. Do you have anything you can point to that suggests Man is the same?
Quote from DataCruncher:
what other internal control incidents besides the wheat trader who had a huge loss?
By Matthew Leising
June 13 (Bloomberg) -- MF Global Ltd., the futures broker
that lost $141 million earlier this year on unauthorized wheat
trades, said it has set aside $10 million for potential civil
penalties from U.S. regulatory probes.
The company today disclosed two investigations into natural-
gas trades it helped facilitate. The U.S. Attorney's Office in
New York is probing over-the-counter gas trades of a customer,
the Bank of Montreal. In addition, the Commodity Futures Trading
Commission sent a so-called Wells notice in May, saying it may
recommend legal action over two natural-gas trades in 2004,
according to MF Global's regulatory filing.
``It seems like MF Global didn't have good control systems,
they're getting burned more than once. It wasn't just the wheat
trades,'' said Bruce Weber, a finance professor at the London
Business School. The $10 million set aside ``is a material
amount. They're not a giant broker that can absorb something like
that easily.''
MF Global Sets Aside $10 Million for Trading Probes (Correct)
The unauthorized wheat trades, disclosed in February, are
being investigated by the CFTC and the U.S. Attorney's Office in
Chicago, the company said previously.
MF Global also faces five lawsuits that have been
consolidated into a class action related to the wheat trades by
former broker Evan Dooley, the company said in the filing. MF
Global, the world's largest broker of exchange-traded
derivatives, initially reported losing $141.5 million on the
wheat trades and today reduced that to $141 million.
Grand Jury Probe
The natural-gas trades related to Bank of Montreal are also
being investigated by a New York County grand jury. An unnamed
BMO trader, using a broker at MF Global, ``allegedly mismarked
his book,'' MF Global said, meaning he entered incorrect or false
trade data.
The Bank of Montreal last year lost $618 million in natural-
gas trades, the largest loss ever by a Canadian bank. The bank
said last May it had ``increased concerns'' about the reliability
of quotes from its main broker, Optionable Inc. After increasing
the size of its loss, BMO said it was investigating ``whether any
potential irregularities in trading and valuation took place,''
according to a May 17, 2007 statement.
The CFTC and the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission are
also involved in the investigation, MF Global said. Neither MF
Global nor its broker have been named as targets of the probe,
the company said.
I'm not going to post the entire article from my terminal, i'm sure bloomberg's website has the same article