Methods for gaining muscle and losing fat

Status
Not open for further replies.
Quote from Brass:

I came to believe I had been overtraining when I was younger.
More...

It's interesting that you mention the over training phrase. What I'm about to say is no reflection on you because I've never seen or met you in person.

But out of all the people I've ever met in person or seen at the gym, I can't say that I've ever met a single person who I thought was overtraining. The only "over anything" I've noticed in people who claim to work out are:

1. Over eating
2. Over drinking
3. Over talking
4. Over supplementing
5. Over perfuming :D
 
Overtraining is very common, too many sets too much volume. Most guys I know spend like 3 hrs per day pumping iron. Little to show for all that time and effort.

With regard to the danger of unknown supplements. The seeds of cancer are sowed a decade or two before clinical manifestation with DNA damage. Chronic exposure to a known carcinogen or an as yet unknown one may rear an ugly head 20 yrs down the road. I do not want to be the mouse on the cutting edge of new supplementation.
 
Quote from Emilio_Lizardo:

Lay article on recent research:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/09/080924151018.htm

Good survey article but a little out of date:
http://pubs.acs.org/cen/science/87/8731sci2.html

Paper on possible mechanism:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18843793
More...
Interesting links. Thank you. I note, however, that no distinction was made between more active and less active subjects. My understanding is that people engaged in regular and significant physical exertion require more calories and protein.

I also note that there is no distinction made regarding protein source. I wonder if the higher protein diets were largely meat based or otherwise high in saturated fats. It would be interesting if the researchers had put a finer point on their study in this regard.

However, and perhaps I missed it so please let me know, I have not noticed a distinction made in protein requirements based on age. Only as it relates to longevity. But that brings us back to the first two points.

I recall hearing on a radio science show about a 20-year study conducted in Japan among hundreds if not thousands of older participants ranging in ages from their late 40s well into their 60s. The participants were divided into 3 groups: those who ate no meat, those who got most of their nutrition from meat and other animal sources, and those who consumed only a small amount of meat, say twice weekly in fairly modest quantity, with the remainder of their diet being plant based (I imagine fruits, vegetables, legumes, grains, nuts and seeds). At the end of the study, the researchers found that the group that fared the best in terms of overall health and mobility was the one that consumed a fairly small amount of animal products in proportion to their diet. The group that relied heavily on meat and such had heart-related issues and other health problems associated with a diet high in saturated fat. The plant-only participants fared better than the meat people, but not as well as the group that ate some animal products sparingly because they did not have as much muscle mass on average and, therefore, less mobility. I'm not sure how mobility was defined, but I accept it at face. Since my diet is fairly low in saturated fats and I only eat meat a couple of times a week (beef only once evey two weeks), I feel rather good about this study.

Any thoughts about my earlier observations and/or this study?
 
Quote from Baron:

It's interesting that you mention the over training phrase. What I'm about to say is no reflection on you because I've never seen or met you in person.

But out of all the people I've ever met in person or seen at the gym, I can't say that I've ever met a single person who I thought was overtraining...
More...
Until my mid-40s, I was working out 3 times a week on a split routine (A & B), such that each muscle group was being worked 3 times every two weeks. Each workout lasted about 3 hours. Well over two hours were dedicated to weights, with 30 minutes for cardio and then about 10 minutes for abs. There was no socializing, however, I did take up to two-minute breaks for the larger muscle groups and about a minute for the smaller ones. Each set was to failure. I am well aware that extended workouts are suboptimal and possibly counterproductive, but it was a compromise I was willing to make because I didn't want to go to the gym every day. I had regular insomnia, and my shoulder joints would more than just occasionally flare up. (Rotator cuff issues going back a long way due to poor exercise form when I was too young or stupid to know better.) Keep in mind that I have never taken any performance enhancing substances, so my recovery capability was merely that of a mortal.

Since that time I have been gradually paring the routine down to its present form. As of about 3 weeks or so, I have been doing three full-body workouts per week. Further, I decided to go the bodyweight workout route, although I still do weighted pullups and dips, and now weighted pistol and sissy squats, along with other non-weighted bodyweight exercises. The whole routine lasts about 90 minutes, with the resistance portion limited to 60 minutes (with slightly shorter rest periods between sets than what I mentioned earlier). Cardio is now only 15 minutes, but I maintain a heart rate of 85% to 90% of my MHR throughout -- I will be checking with my doctor about this in a couple of days when I have my annual physical. Ab work remains at about 10 minutes, although I altered it for what I think is the better. I feel a lot better doing this routine, although it's too soon to tell how it will fare in results, if any. But I'm sleeping better and feeling better.

So, yeah, I think I was probably overdoing it some years ago, at least as far as my capacity is concerned.
 
Too often my best gains came on the next workout after I had to take a week or two off for this other reason or that. Things that make you go hmmm
 
Quote from 50/50:

Most guys I know spend like 3 hrs per day pumping iron.
More...

They might spend 3 hours at the gym bullshitting around in the weight room but they definitely aren't spending all that time lifting weights with a high level of intensity.

I can't see why anybody's weight lifting routine should take more than 35 - 45 minutes per workout. Because if it does, they definitely need to crank up the intensity.

As an example of what I'm talking about try this 3-set chest workout on your next attempt.

As a quick warm-up, do 5 or 10 pushups to get the blood flowing and neurons firing.

Pick a set of dumbbells with a weight you can do around 12 - 15 times with max effort, and then lay on flat bench.

Set #1: Do your set of 12 - 15 reps to absolute failure. (By the way, if you are able to do 15 reps without going to failure, the weight you chose was too light!)

Rest for 1 minute. Use your watch (or a timer app on your phone to time this).

Set #2: Ok, using the same weight as before, go all out to failure (you may only be able to do 9 - 12 reps this time. When you push up that very last rep -- the one you have to really struggle with to get up -- I want you to lower the dumbbells back down to your chest but I want you to take 20 seconds to do it. I want you to count down from 20 out loud as you do it. I don't want a spotter helping you either. If you do this correctly, you will likely have to drop the dumbbells on the floor once you get anywhere near the bottom.

Rest for 1 minute. Again, time it and don't pretend you're taking a one minute rest when it's actually 3 minutes. You'll be surprised how fast that one minute goes by.

Set #3. This set is one rep only. Just push the weight up once, and then take 20 seconds to lower it just like the last rep of the previous set.

That's it. At this point, your chest is completely fried and your chest workout is officially over. If you try this, you will be absolutely astounded at how this four-and-a-half minute workout just completely kicked your ass.

I challenge anyone to give this 5 minute chest workout a shot and report back with your experience.
 
Quote from Baron:



As an example of what I'm talking about try this 3-set chest workout on your next attempt.

As a quick warm-up, do 5 or 10 pushups to get the blood flowing and neurons firing.

Pick a set of dumbbells with a weight you can do around 12 - 15 times with max effort, and then lay on flat bench.

Set #1: Do your set of 12 - 15 reps to absolute failure. (By the way, if you are able to do 15 reps without going to failure, the weight you chose was too light!)

Rest for 1 minute. Use your watch (or a timer app on your phone to time this).

Set #2: Ok, using the same weight as before, go all out to failure (you may only be able to do 9 - 12 reps this time. When you push up that very last rep -- the one you have to really struggle with to get up -- I want you to lower the dumbbells back down to your chest but I want you to take 20 seconds to do it. I want you to count down from 20 out loud as you do it. I don't want a spotter helping you either. If you do this correctly, you will likely have to drop the dumbbells on the floor once you get anywhere near the bottom.

Rest for 1 minute. Again, time it and don't pretend you're taking a one minute rest when it's actually 3 minutes. You'll be surprised how fast that one minute goes by.

Set #3. This set is one rep only. Just push the weight up once, and then take 20 seconds to lower it just like the last rep of the previous set.

That's it. At this point, your chest is completely fried and your chest workout is officially over. If you try this, you will be absolutely astounded at how this four-and-a-half minute workout just completely kicked your ass.

I challenge anyone to give this 5 minute chest workout a shot and report back with your experience.
More...

Deal. I'm going to do that this week. I'll report back.
 
Correct, the reason why you should limit your training time to 30-45 min is- after longer workout the levels of HGH start to drop.

Also, there will be no further triggers for the muscles to grow, once you've trained hard all muscle groups during first 30mins.


What are in my experience the most optimal methods of building muscles:
all kinds of bodyweight training.
push, pull, sit and chin ups, inverted rows, squats.
All equipment you really need is a bar over your head.......
Take a look :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poV3gfxuZH8&feature=related
Plus, you hit all the muscle fibers, which is often not the case with the gym machines.

And I agree with Baron, the most common is undertraining!
Spending 2 hours at the gym while NOT doing the lifting properly.
People focus on # of reps and sets, while it is much more important for HOW LONG you carry a weight during a single excercise.
Thats why slow, negative (eccentric) training is recommended - to make the total TIME you hold a weight longer and stimulate the muscles.
 
Quote from Maverick74:

Deal. I'm going to do that this week. I'll report back.
More...

I'll also give it a go.
One exercise and 3 sets compared to my current 3 exercises and 9 sets. It's a no brainer.
And I'd be lying if i said my physique equalled Barons'.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top