MetaStock Pro Daytrading System Development

T

Tahoe

All:

I'm interested in soliciting people who have development day trading systems using MetaStock Professional. Specifically, I would like to focus on daytrading the e-mini Nasdaq 100 (currently NQ Z1). Also, I understand that the latest version of MetaStock Pro comes bundles with some built-in trading systems, of which some of them are targeting day traders. Has anyone tested these systems with NQ? I've been trading NQ for a while, using a loose set of "rules", but am not doing very well. I need solid rules that have positive mathematical probability. My target is 10 points per day.

Any and all comments are welcome. Even if the systems were not using MetaStock Pro.

Thanks,

TAHOE
 
I use the EOD version of Metastock for system testing but found it limiting. It doesn't allow you to enter and exit on stops, or limit orders, and has a weak programming language. I followed the Metastock boards for a year up until 4 months ago, and all the good programmers of Metastock favored Tradestation to do the heavy work, and Metastock for simple things. They all wished that Tradestation had Metastocks charts, so they would have the best of both worlds. Another good product, being improved constantly, is Amibroker http://www.amibroker.com/ . It is passing up Metastock with more features and is pretty cheap. I don't know if it's anywhere near Tradestations' Easy Language though yet.
 
I have also used MetaStock EOD for quite some time. That's the reason for my post. I want to find out if the Pro version is worth the $900 upgrade cost. You can use stops as part of your system strategy w/ MetaStock. What you can't do is command an intra-bar exit. For instance, if a stop is hit, the actual sell point is either the open, high, low, or close of the bar. This is a big problem for the EOD version, since many volatile stocks can have big intra-day swings. That's why I thought that having the intra-day version would be a lot better and not suffer from the problem as much (after all, I could use 10-tick periodicity or something). I've been using Ensign w/ E-signal right now for my real-time monitoring, but am finding Ensign to be a little too buggy for my liking. There are data gap problems, chart refresh problems, and other quirks which annoy me. It isn't nearly as polished as MetaStock. Plus the Ensing backtesting is not user friendly, to say the least.

Another intriguing addition to MetaStock Pro 7.2 is their 26 new performance systems included w/ the software. When talking to some of their salemen, I found that there are several of these systems that target day traders. Apparently they worked on these systems for 2 years to guarantee robust performance across many types of securities.

As for Tradestation - you can no longer just buy it and use it - you have to use their brokerage service. I have an IB account and would like to stay with them.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I'll check out Amibroker.

TAHOE
 
The lack of Intraday stops is exactly why it's useless to me. They never improve the testing portion of the program either, which tells me they are going after the more casual investor who wants the work done for him via the canned systems they provide. I tested many of the EOD systems on 7.2 and some were pretty profitable, but it depended on the stock and time period. I like to know how something works before I risk money on it, and I like to create my own systems.

That is too bad about Trade Station not being available for purchase (new). I thought about opening an account just to get the software, but at $10 a trade (I believe), I could buy the software in commissions every month. And I believe its a $50,000 minimum to open an account.

I'm hoping Amibroker keeps improving to the point of being usable for testing like TradeStation. Haven't looked at it in awhile so I'll have to check it out again.
 
Tahoe:
I'm also working on a NQ system and I'll tell you I've already spent thousands of hours with Tradestation just in the last two months, so I realize that there is no simple answer, especially when trading one of the most volatile contracts in the world.

A simple idea: You may want to focus alot of attention on the action around the previous days close, low, and high. Have setup conditions for fading and also breakouts of these levels. Also breaks of Current days low/highs.
For exits, look at the Parabolic SAR indicator or a multiple of the Average True Range of X bars back to trail the price.

If your trading the trend intraday DON'T GO AGAINST THE 15min TREND...if trading 1-5 min bars, maybe only long trades if 15mchart 5pdEMA is above 13pdEMA and oppossite for shorts.

These are just some starting block ideas.. also remember that any system can usually be optimized(curve fitted) to the past but we need robustness and this is the real challenge.
 
I have Metastock pro and used the realtime with e-signal one and thought it was crap. I use window on wallstreet charts and level 2 but i use the end of day part of the metastock program to find levels and patterns of interest, i then make my short list for day-trading. I always trade extreamly liquid stock as there has been many a time when i first started and got caught with my pants down in a stock.
I did used to spend to much time creating end of day systems on metastock but found it much more beneficial to manualy set stops and targets.
anyway i talk allot of rubbish but i did make take a 4 point profit in the qqq at the beguining of the week, and i can't spell.
 
wwatson1:

While I appreciate your input, I was hoping you could expound upon your statement "thought it was crap." I'm sure more details of your disappointment would be helpful for all of us, rather than off-the-cuff negative remarks, which help no one. I would really like to understand your frustration with the real-time version of MetaStock and would be particularly interested in what version you are referring to.

TAHOE
 
Ok when i used it they did not have historical intraday data so you had to have the server running all the time or you would have a gap in the chart, thats was ages ago so i don't know what it is like now. Metastock 7.0.
 
Tahoe,

For trading a few securities or commodities MSPRo is a decent choice. There are several shortcomings related to stop and limit orders, processor requirements etc.

This is one of the better threads with a discussion of the issues (at least as I see them).

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2719&highlight=metastock

I have MetaStock Pro 7.2 PRO, have used MS for 6 years, but would never use it to trade in real time. My reasons are outlined in the thread above. For just charting and simple systems Metastock is absolutely terrific. eSignal integration is the best I've seen anywhere.
 
Originally posted by wwatson1
Ok when i used it they did not have historical intraday data so you had to have the server running all the time or you would have a gap in the chart, thats was ages ago so i don't know what it is like now. Metastock 7.0.
More...

The have had "DataOnDemand" since PRO 7. which now gives you up to 60 days of intraday data right off of eSignal servers. Supposedly the same works with Quote.com now, but I haven't used it.

Re intraday data: A significant limitation is that the database only holds 65000 data elements. That's about 6 months of 1 min bars, or a day-and-half of INTC tick data. Major limitation is you trade off of tick data.
 
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