Message to rich people, here is what even you don't get

[Misthos]

Sandybestdog:

Young people today are having it much harder than our parents did. As you say, there are way too many people competing for too few jobs.

You are right. A lot of people that tell you otherwise are likely the over 50 crowd that experienced the majority of the post WWII credit expansion. They never experienced outsourcing competition in their youth and were able to lay the groundwork for a wealthy life.

The times will be different and attaining wealth will get harder and harder. Luck is playing an increasingly greater role - but that's not a reason to use that as an excuse and not try either.

Just don"t beat yourself up over it. Right now most wealthy people are just trying to maintain their wealth, let alone grow it - which speaks volumes to our times.

Ironically, the government is trying to maintain asset values (stocks and real estate) to benefit the prior generation at your generation's expense. They encourage outsourcing, H1B Visas, and high real estate values. The "college industrial" complex as Celente calls it, is also screwing you guys. The youth gets robbed many ways to benefit the older generation - most destructive of course, is government debts at all levels. The youth rarely benefits from that. You guys will get a hefty tab as the baby boomers pass the buck to you.

Age-wise, I'm somewhere in the middle - so I can't complain as much.

 

[Mr.Consistent]

Quote from Sandybestdog:

OK I think you nailed my quest in life, to become secretly rich. I never thought of pizza delivery as a way to make money to live on, I used it to make good money to compound it just like you said. Unfortunately, what do you do when none of that works out? I have to cheat on my taxes just to try to make MORE money. I have so many write offs from business losses and trading losses, I don�t know what to do with it. So when you work a job to use the money to invest, but that doesn�t work out, all you�re left with is a job that is paying less and a higher cost of living. So you�re basically screwed.

There�s should be no guarantees when it comes to business and investing endeavors. But if those don�t work out, don�t you think people should be able to at least get a job and if they work, they should at least be able to afford the bare essentials to live on? Call me a Socialist if you want to, but that�s how I feel. So in that respect I think the critisizm by the poor to the rich and the government is justified. Nobody is entitled to riches or a good life, but why are the poor�s cost of living always going higher and higher, meanwhile their wages are continually stagnant or even dropping? You don�t think that�s a result of the government and the rich shafting them?

I have also heard that if all the riches were redistributed, everybody would end up right back where they were. I suppose I would mostly agree with that with a little exception. Many baby boomers have what they have today, not because they are smarter or more hard working than the youth of today, but because really, they got lucky. How can anybody compare who would have all the riches when there are different playing fields? Take a 55 year old engineer or doctor or government worker. Do you really think they would be in the same place in 30 years if they had to do it all over again? All of a sudden they�ll find out they can�t afford to work 3 months in the Summer to pay for their whole years college. They will actually have to graduate with 50k in student loans, not to mention the credit cards they used to cover the rest of their living expenses. Then when they get out of college, they are surprised to find that you actually have to compete for jobs now. Then of course you have to deal with all of the cheap immigrants that the government and corporations bring over here and justify why you should get paid more than them for doing the same thing. Then they realize that homes don�t cost 40k anymore, they are now 350k. I could go on and on. But before anybody believes that the rich would always be rich and the poor poor, they should look at how each of them got there and ask if the roles were reversed if there would be the same outcome.

There�s another thread that talks about the way the poor and rich act. Check it out.

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=164939

Once again your post is about justifying how you're a victim, you blame everything from the government through to migrants, instead of taking responsibility for your own actions and blaming yourself for where you got yourself. You blew your money in trading, you blew your money on failed business and now you're stuck because you didn't plan for your future.

There are millions of people in our world even without clean drinking water, constantly in hunger, or living in war, yet you are not living in a third world country, you don't seem to have physical disabilities, and your only issue is lack of responsibility for your own actions and thinking that the world owes you a living. I'm sure that you will disagree with my post, and that's ok. You're in a "trap" and you won't get out of the trap until you change your beliefs. The best advice I could give you is to embrace your current "hard" situation as a gift, and start learning and understanding that what you've been doing so far isn't working, and start educating yourself about how money are made.

By the way if you ever return back to trading with the same attitude as you currently posses, I guarantee you that you'll again experience big losses and you won't stand a chance to make it as a trader because professional traders see themselves responsible for whatever happens to them in the market, and don't act as victims as you do. Currently you either lack awareness of how the world works, and/or you're seeking sympathy from other people, either way it won't get you where you want be in life.

Start making yourself accountable, don't wish for things to be better, instead work on yourself to become better, that's within your control.

All the best

 

[maxpi]

Quote from Sandybestdog:

You are so full of crap it’s not even funny. I am 25. 1)I don’t have any kids. 2)I haven’t quit a until I had another. 3)I have never not showed up to work and I think I have only called out sick once in 14 years of having a job. 4)I don’t drink, smoke, or play the lottery. Trading is really my only entertainment money I have wasted. 5)I have never gotten fired for not doing my job. 6) I have sent out resumes or called over 100 places in a 9 month period before thankfully landing 2 temporary jobs. I’ll have to start looking again in another 2 months. 7) Despite feeling that I could do other jobs very well, but not being given the right opportunity, I have delivered pizza off and on for the past 6 years because at least it was a job and I could make some money. Many other people are doing the same thing. 8) Which things should I not overspend on? My health insurance is going up 15% a year. Should I cut back on that? An apartment in my area is a minimum of $900 a month. Should I live on the street instead? People with perfect credit history are having their credit card interest rates triple for no other reason other than Chase can do it if they want to. Yet people like you complain that they spend $50 a month on a cell phone?

Despite all of this, I am broker than ever. I have started a few businesses and they all failed. No matter how hard I work or effort I put into something, most things just don’t work out. So now I’m back to having to just work a job just to stay ahead. But those don’t pay crap anymore. It used to be somebody could walk into a factory and support a family and be respected. Now, you people look down on those that work at McDonald’s and call them dumb and stupid cause they work there. What’s the difference? You are right about one thing. Poor people are poor because they keep doing the same thing, like getting a job. Good jobs are being replaced by crappy, low end jobs that usually don’t even pay enough to live on. They should instead figure out a why to screw the rich at their own game so that they can again receive an honest days pay for an honest days work.

WIN stands for Work Is Nonprofit.

I'm mastering futs trading and beyond that I'm envisioning buying up foreclosed real estate and turning it into miniature Section Eight share cropper farms to house all those people that are poor. If I pay the Obama admin enough they will call that "sustainable government investing" or some such and support me way more generously than I support them. Everytime I have to evict somebody I'll post it on Youtube and forward the url to all the other tenants... You have to adapt to the current realities and technologies the best you can

 

[Sandybestdog]

Quote from Mr.Consistent:

Once again your post is about justifying how you're a victim, you blame everything from the government through to migrants, instead of taking responsibility for your own actions and blaming yourself for where you got yourself. You blew your money in trading, you blew your money on failed business and now you're stuck because you didn't plan for your future.

There are millions of people in our world even without clean drinking water, constantly in hunger, or living in war, yet you are not living in a third world country, you don't seem to have physical disabilities, and your only issue is lack of responsibility for your own actions and thinking that the world owes you a living. I'm sure that you will disagree with my post, and that's ok. You're in a "trap" and you won't get out of the trap until you change your beliefs. The best advice I could give you is to embrace your current "hard" situation as a gift, and start learning and understanding that what you've been doing so far isn't working, and start educating yourself about how money are made.

By the way if you ever return back to trading with the same attitude as you currently posses, I guarantee you that you'll again experience big losses and you won't stand a chance to make it as a trader because professional traders see themselves responsible for whatever happens to them in the market, and don't act as victims as you do. Currently you either lack awareness of how the world works, and/or you're seeking sympathy from other people, either way it won't get you where you want be in life.

Start making yourself accountable, don't wish for things to be better, instead work on yourself to become better, that's within your control.

All the best

And I thought we would be able to have an intelligent conversation. What the hell do you think I was doing trying to trade and start a business? Planning for my damn future you idiot. Not everything works out. How come all you people go on this personal responsibility and victim speeches but can’t answer a simple question? How are everyday people supposed stay ahead when their wages are flat or falling and their cost of living keeps going up and up? I don’t give a crap about all your lectures until you can answer a simple question. What kind of argument is it when you tell hard working people trying to get ahead that at least they don’t live in a war zone and have clean drinking water? Meanwhile the rich get billion dollar bailouts. That’s a stupid argument. I hope you’re not a lawyer.

Oh and by the way, a few months ago, I started a forex micro account with $25. I don’t know how I did it considering I pretty much used the same losing methods that haven’t worked in the past, but I have turned it into about $1800. Call it whatever you want, but I’m pretty sure it wasn’t because of a change in attitude. I think I just found a niche that works. But my point is that sometimes you have to knock a lot of doors down until you find it. I just think that it’s rediculous that people’s labor value is being stripped away by the powers that be. Somebody who works nearly non stop, shouldn’t be making enough to maybe just pay the bills.

 

[Trader666]

Animosity aside, you personify what AlpineTrout wrote: "the so called poor are poor, because they keep doing the same stupid things over and over again."

Here are some suggestions on how to do things differently.

1) You don't like the way the job situation and the economy are. Fine. But instead of complaining about them (unproductive), adapt to them (productive). It won't give you the same instant gratification that "venting" does but it will serve you much better in the long run.

2) Part of adapting is, don't get a job get a career. Forget about factory jobs and times past unless you have a time machine. Focus instead on how to succeed now.

3) Careers... there are tons of possibilities and these might not be right for you but here are a few ideas to show you what I mean. If you want to work for yourself and have potential to expand, learn a trade and become something like a plumber or electrician. You will need to invest years learning and working for others during your apprenticeship but once you reach a certain skill level and learn the ins and outs of the business, you can go out on your own and work for yourself and even expand it into a mini empire if you have the drive and business sense. If instead you want a secure job with health care and a pension, find something with the federal government and work your way up. Not all jobs require a college degree but if you want one you could probably get them to help pay for it through night classes after work. And it might take you a year or more to find something you like and get hired. And it will be a lot of bureaucratic hassle. But think of all this as an investment too.

4) Be flexible. You should be open to working in a field you don't love. You will probably have to move. The first few years will suck. Etc., etc. But ask yourself where you'll be in 3 - 5 years if you don't get a career.

If you're not willing to do something along these lines then you deserve more of what you have now. And don't even try to tell me this kind of thing is not doable.

Quote from Sandybestdog:

You are so full of crap it’s not even funny. I am 25. 1)I don’t have any kids. 2)I haven’t quit a until I had another. 3)I have never not showed up to work and I think I have only called out sick once in 14 years of having a job. 4)I don’t drink, smoke, or play the lottery. Trading is really my only entertainment money I have wasted. 5)I have never gotten fired for not doing my job. 6) I have sent out resumes or called over 100 places in a 9 month period before thankfully landing 2 temporary jobs. I’ll have to start looking again in another 2 months. 7) Despite feeling that I could do other jobs very well, but not being given the right opportunity, I have delivered pizza off and on for the past 6 years because at least it was a job and I could make some money. Many other people are doing the same thing. 8) Which things should I not overspend on? My health insurance is going up 15% a year. Should I cut back on that? An apartment in my area is a minimum of $900 a month. Should I live on the street instead? People with perfect credit history are having their credit card interest rates triple for no other reason other than Chase can do it if they want to. Yet people like you complain that they spend $50 a month on a cell phone?

Despite all of this, I am broker than ever. I have started a few businesses and they all failed. No matter how hard I work or effort I put into something, most things just don’t work out. So now I’m back to having to just work a job just to stay ahead. But those don’t pay crap anymore. It used to be somebody could walk into a factory and support a family and be respected. Now, you people look down on those that work at McDonald’s and call them dumb and stupid cause they work there. What’s the difference? You are right about one thing. Poor people are poor because they keep doing the same thing, like getting a job. Good jobs are being replaced by crappy, low end jobs that usually don’t even pay enough to live on. They should instead figure out a why to screw the rich at their own game so that they can again receive an honest days pay for an honest days work.

 

[Vista]

Would somebody please bring out the violin.

Alright, so you're 25 and still making min. wage or close to it. That right there, should tell you.......maybe I'm fucking up. C'mon, you have absolutely no business trying to trade at this point in your life. Lets just have a wake up call here. Did you really think you were going to turn $25 into a million?

You are paying $900 for an apartment? Rent a Uhaul and pack your shit up and move to a low cost of living area!

Get yourself a night job (working 6 nights a week) and get enrolled in a dirt cheap junior college. Noone cares about the first two years. They only care about the college you graduate from and your gpa. For this you get the school loan for tthe last two years.

Here's a link to some jobs in high demand. I didn't notice nursing on the list, as they are in huge demand. That's right, huge demand all over the country with signing bonuses, and major benefits. http://education.yahoo.net/degrees/articles/featured_top_10_jobs.html

So, there ya go, stop being a wuss and get it done.

 

[DakotaDohBoy]

Quote from Sandybestdog:

Yea thanks for the suggestions. Actually that was just an example. I actually still live with my parents. They have never been in a hurry to kick me out and I have never been in a hurry to start paying rent. I used the money instead to invest and start businesses, neither of which has worked out. However my health insurance and all other expenses have been going significantly over the past few years.

You know I’m beginning to see how living in a big suburban area is actually a bad thing. Supposedly I live in the 12th richest county in the country, but a decent job is still hard to come by. There are so many 40+ people with college degrees and experience that take the good government and tech and science jobs. I worked for the Census Bureau for a month on a temp assignment. I can’t believe how much paperwork and testing and waiting and lack of communication I had to go through just to get that. Then most of blue collar jobs are being filled by all the immigrants that have overrun everything here. Most people my age are only able to make half way decent money by working at restaurants and getting tips.

Young people today are having it much harder than our parents did. As you say, there are way too many people competing for too few jobs.

There is a lot of truth to that of a college degree not being worth as much as it used to be. The problem is too many people go to college with the idea that it is the road to riches. Probably because of the misunderstandings of parents. My dad doesn't understand how as a civil engineer my first job wasn't $100k+ per year. I used to work in construction and made as much as I do now as an engineer, and had several months per year off, and no college debt (this was a big mistake). If I were physically able, I would most likely go back to construction. There also is no truth to colleges are not graduating enough engineers, they are actually graduating more than they used too. The real truth is that most who go into engineering in college are using it a general/liberal arts degree. What I mean is that they chose to go into other fields, the degree was only a springboard to what the were really looking for.

As to your comment on migrants taking over all the blue collar jobs. That is a falicy and a complete joke perpetraded by hate mongers. There is truth in that there are a lot of foreigners in construction, particularly Mexicans. There is no (or shockingly little) truth in that US companies would rather hire these individuals. The real truth is that very few Americans are willing to do the type of work these individuals are willing to do. I worked in residential construction and industrial construction. Industrial construction has long hours and much better pay per hour than residential. Take into account the longer hours, there is no comparison as to pay. Find work as a boilermaker or highly skilled welder (ie boilermakers or pipefitters) and you can make a six figure income. Most do not because they only work a few months per year. Get in good with most indistrial contractors (perhaps all) and you will also be able to get health and retirement benefits, ie work with them for a set period of time.

There is a pay differential between union and non union labor but, in my experience, not that much. Some unions are absolutely trash, some are very good. My dad retired from one that is rubbish. I used to belong to one that was quite good.

Your health insurance is going up for two reasons: somebody has to pay for mom and dads health care, and because of tort lawyers who will sue over anything and judges and juries who are more than happy to give it to them. My opinion anyway.

As to young people having it harder. Another poster hit it on the head when he said our parents generation have politicians in office who are robbing us for their benefit. As I told my mom, "I would like to be able to help you when you retire, but don't count on it. The way the politicians are going, the taxes will go up and the economy down to such a point it may be all I can do to feed myself. You may as well get used to being supported by the government." She found how much they are liable to help recently when she looked into how much she will get from social security. As a staunch Democrat, she shouldn't mind. (Harsh, I know).

The economy tanked because of government meddling, not a lack of government action. The more government action, the worse things will get. Too bad politicians are more concerned about their ego and getting votes than about the actual well being of its citizens. But then, to our folly, we keep voting for them rather than the best option (and uless he is Keyes or Paul, I don't mean a Republican either).

A final thought on immigrants, consider this. We have a significant portion or our population starting to retire. To keep growing an economy at a healthy rate, there needs to be a proper balance between young, middle age, and elderly/retired folks. We will be entering an era when that balance will be disrupted. The fastest way to fix that is through immigration. I believe we should open up more visas to those with the needed skills.

Good luck.

 

[DakotaDohBoy]

Quote from Vista:

Get yourself a night job (working 6 nights a week) and get enrolled in a dirt cheap junior college. Noone cares about the first two years. They only care about the college you graduate from and your gpa. For this you get the school loan for tthe last two years.
[/B]

Vista, I will take issue with part of your comment. The only time most companies care about what college you graduate from is when it comes to a graduate degree. Once a person has graduated from an accredited college or university, the student should have a baseline knowledge in the subject. In most cases the content of one's character and ability to deal with others seems to be more important.

GPA is somewhat important, but the employer will typically tell you upfront if it is. At any rate, if you see a job you like, apply. The worst they can say is no. And if you don't apply, it is a defacto 'no' anyway, so go ahead and apply. Some will be impressed that you put yourself out like that and give you a shot.

That is my experience, perhaps yours is different.

 

[Vista]

Quote from DakotaDohBoy:

Vista, I will take issue with part of your comment. The only time most companies care about what college you graduate from is when it comes to a graduate degree.

The point I was trying to make was really about keeping the cost of a college education reasonable, if he has to pay for it himself. No company recruiter is going to care if someone starts their first two years at a junior college, and it only costs about 1/3 to 1/5 as much for tuition.

 

[Sandybestdog]

Quote from Trader666:

Animosity aside, you personify what AlpineTrout wrote: "the so called poor are poor, because they keep doing the same stupid things over and over again."

Here are some suggestions on how to do things differently.

1) You don't like the way the job situation and the economy are. Fine. But instead of complaining about them (unproductive), adapt to them (productive). It won't give you the same instant gratification that "venting" does but it will serve you much better in the long run.

2) Part of adapting is, don't get a job get a career. Forget about factory jobs and times past unless you have a time machine. Focus instead on how to succeed now.

3) Careers... there are tons of possibilities and these might not be right for you but here are a few ideas to show you what I mean. If you want to work for yourself and have potential to expand, learn a trade and become something like a plumber or electrician. You will need to invest years learning and working for others during your apprenticeship but once you reach a certain skill level and learn the ins and outs of the business, you can go out on your own and work for yourself and even expand it into a mini empire if you have the drive and business sense. If instead you want a secure job with health care and a pension, find something with the federal government and work your way up. Not all jobs require a college degree but if you want one you could probably get them to help pay for it through night classes after work. And it might take you a year or more to find something you like and get hired. And it will be a lot of bureaucratic hassle. But think of all this as an investment too.

4) Be flexible. You should be open to working in a field you don't love. You will probably have to move. The first few years will suck. Etc., etc. But ask yourself where you'll be in 3 - 5 years if you don't get a career.

If you're not willing to do something along these lines then you deserve more of what you have now. And don't even try to tell me this kind of thing is not doable.

I knew it was just a matter of time till you showed up. Look, I don’t want a job, I don’t want a career. I am not that type of person. I don’t care if I run a hot dog stand on the side of the road, at least it is mine and nobody can fire me. I got a temp job with the Census Bureau. They said it was going to be 3 months. Then when we started it was 2 months. Then 5 weeks in they said oh the jobs way ahead of schedule, we don’t need you anymore. They gave us no indication or info of when future jobs are available. Then about a month later, I see an ad in the paper. Why don’t they just call the dozens of people they just laid off? I cleared my schedule for 3 months to plan for this, and then they leave me hanging. That’s what jobs do. People rely on them and they get them into unpredictable financial trouble. Oh and that was a relatively easy job, but they paid $18 an hour, so I guess it doesn’t really matter what skills you have, but rather who’s paying you. It’s actually pretty hard to get a job with the government, tons of paperwork. Except the military of course.

I can understand what you’re saying about getting into an apprentiship type job. I’ve been looking for something like that but I’m not sure what field. I send out 100 resumes and call ads, but nobody calls back, except for the Census and the golf course.

So here’s what I want to do next. I figure the best way to screw the rich and make a bunch of money, is to go take it from them. I’ve tried trading, and well I’m not very good at that. Haven’t given up though. So I was thinking one day about the best way to do that. Who makes the most money? Energy company’s. What is the cornerstone of our economy that is going to ruin it if we don’t start doing something about it – energy. I don’t know anything about engineering or cars, but I know that somebody can buy a solar panel, plug it into their house (the power company has to credit their usage) and get free energy for at least 30 years. Free energy, no emissions, screw the oil and coal company’s, and make money doing it. I like that idea. Then take the natural gas the power plants were using and use them in our cars.

So I bought a battery, wind turbine, and solar panel. The problem is, I have no idea what I’m doing. I’m trying to hook it up, but the instruction manual is all Greek to me. I don’t know this stuff and my parents are worried I’m going to blow up the house. There is a creek that runs behind my house. You know what that is? Free energy. Put a bunch of water turbines in there and suck out the money. So that’s what I want to do. I want to build solar panels and turbines. But I have no idea what I’m doing. I can’t seem to find any info on courses or programs to do this. It’s kind of a new area. I don’t see why you should have to get a whole engineering degree to do this. Also somebody told me that the power company’s don’t want to buy power from little guys and that just to apply, it is a $25,000 application fee. I imagine though if I got the capital to do a bunch of this though, a little lawsuit and some calls to the media and Senators and Sierra Club or whoever, would put some pressure on them. Maybe I’m a little out of my league, but that’s what I want to do.