Mentorship (4th year still not profitable)

[d08]

As you have tried so many systems and patterns, it must be that you haven't decided what you need to find. Your search will continue for ever until you decide that.

There are basically only two strategies - follow or fade - i.e. following the trend or trading the reversal.

Trend-following demands patience, planning, discipline, building positions, a lot of waiting for set-ups, accepting a lumpy and unpredictable income. It is low risk, modest return, low risk of wipe-out.

Trading reversals demands decisiveness, quick responses to unexpected situations with incomplete information, opportunism, real-time price monitoring, spontaneity, imagination. This is high risk, dramatic return, risk of wipe-out.

Personalities can be divided into these two types. trade the right style for your own personality.

Whatever you do, stop day-trading. It is highest risk, low return, astronomical probability of wipe-out.

There are way more than two types of strategies, from non-directional options strategies to pairs etc.

I've trade both trend and reversals. Both have lumpy returns at times.

Stop daytrading? I don't know what it is but it's not good advice. Why would daytrading have "astronomical probability of wipe-out"? That's illogical. The intraday moves are incorporated into longer term charts, so based on that, swing trading also has "astronomical probability of wipe-out" and by extension every time horizon.

 

[d08]

Gary Kasoarov, Mohammed Ali, Ronda Rousey.. hey.. most of the greats in all fields. speak of putting in serrious work/ time, as well as having good coaching.

Their coaches are either retired (too old to compete) or mediocre players but good coaches. When it comes to trading, you want someone who is still active (who cares about learning how trading was in say 1980s?) but also outperforming everyone else. A sports equivalency of having Michael Jordan coach you while he's competing in the NBA finals.

 

[d08]

I think you are missing the points to the answers to the questions related to the posters you have quoted.

If I was offered a salary to trade for a prop firm, why would I not take it? I am making money by trading, and win or lose I am still making money. Sure, if I kept losing for the firm, I would not be employed there for long. But I reckon' it takes a bit of the stress out of trading. I figure trading for a prop-firm for a salary is an in-between of trading your own money and trading in sim. You are stressed, but not as stressed?

Anyway, you appear to be argumentative for argument's sake.

One reason is constrained liquidity as you only get a percentage of the profits. Why would it be less stressful? If you need to make money every month to pay the bills then that's just bad planning. As a trader you need to have 6 months expenses always available and probably more for any health emergencies.

Then if you're systematic or automated, they can just copy what you're doing. They might even get you to give up your code, talk about making yourself redundant.

Anyway, I did have an offer to join a prop firm from someone here on ET but it didn't seem attractive for the aforementioned reasons. Maybe I just have too much disdain for the word "salary".

 

[tomorton]

Stop daytrading? I don't know what it is but it's not good advice. Why would daytrading have "astronomical probability of wipe-out"? That's illogical.

Maybe its illogical but the statistics are with my argument. Most new traders are day-traders and most get wiped out.

 

[Xela]

Maybe its illogical but the statistics are with my argument. Most new traders are day-traders and most get wiped out.

For poor traders (and that's most, of course - nobody's disputing it) you're right; for real traders, d08's right ... (is my perspective).

 

[sle]

Yep

I am only laughing because it's one of the more ridiculous claims made on this forum (having worked at one of the firms mentioned and having been working in finance for many years). What probably happens is that outfit had some people that took their course and later happen to find a job with a fund/bank. Alternatively, they might do corporate training courses for operations/sales staff or provide FSA test prep courses. This gives them an opportunity to say with all honesty "we train staff for VS" and such.

When it comes to trading, you want someone who is still active (who cares about learning how trading was in say 1980s?) but also outperforming everyone else.

It's not "coaching", it's "apprenticeship". It's very different from coaching - you learn by doing things and looking over someones shoulder.

 

[themickey]

Their coaches are either retired (too old to compete) or mediocre players but good coaches. When it comes to trading, you want someone who is still active (who cares about learning how trading was in say 1980s?) but also outperforming everyone else. A sports equivalency of having Michael Jordan coach you while he's competing in the NBA finals.

Not so!
There are plenty of old timers around with years of experience but these days lack the quick reflexes and energy of up coming younger guys and gals.
You don't want a Michael Jordan training you, he us too busy with his own game plan to be able to put quality time into training others, while an old timer has both the time and the nous to do that. But finding such people is like finding gold in a river bed, not easy.

 

[ironchef]

A sports equivalency of having Michael Jordan coach you while he's competing in the NBA finals.

From what I read he was not a good coach either while competing or retired. Phil Jackson was the good coach during Jordan's time.

Turned out his teammate Steve Kerr, not as talented, is a better coach.

I think a good trader may not be a good coach and vice versa.

 

[learner2007]

There are plenty of old timers around with years of experience but these days lack the quick reflexes

Actually, I've found that experience makes up for the need of quick reflexes. What old traders lose first is the power of concentration. After xxx minutes of following the price movement your mind begins to drift.

 

[learner2007]

I think a good trader may not be a good coach and vice versa.

If one knows his stuff, and if the student has the ability to learn, it's not that hard to teach the basics. That fork in the road is the application. I've found that while not wanting to clone myself, too often leaving the student to go his own way, leads to disaster. So initially you have to clone yourself to a certain extent and let the student develop himself later after years of experience.