mentoring-- a waste of time ??

LongShot · Apr 29, 2004

Quote from marketsurfer:

LOL ! i am not a mentor and i did not "blow up". yes, i had a large drawdown caused by not following my own system--- very stupid on my part--but it happened and i documented it here.

surfer

oops :-O

LongShot · Apr 29, 2004

Quote from marketsurfer:

LOL ! i am not a mentor and i did not "blow up". yes, i had a large drawdown caused by not following my own system--- very stupid on my part--but it happened and i documented it here.

surfer

i never understood why if someone has a time-tested successful sys they would risk trading outside sys parameters.. :eek:

marketsurfer · Apr 29, 2004

Quote from LongShot:

i never understood why if someone has a time-tested successful sys they would risk trading outside sys parameters.. :eek:

dude, its called EGO. it kills when not totally controlled in this game.

surfer

BSAM · Apr 29, 2004

Quote from dbphoenix:

Depends on what the busting entails. An awful lot of people think they're working just because they show up every day.

Exactly. That's why I said most people have a bit of a lazy streak that holds them back. I had just a weeeeeeeeee bit more in mind than just showing up.

Been a whale of a journey for me. But, I finally figured out a few things. Would have been FAR easier if someone would have been there to tell me some things at the beginning. I'm pretty much self-taught, as I presume many are. Not trying to boast at all. In fact, I'd say it probably took me longer than most. Things that seem soooo hard, become crystal clear when one finally has those "aha moments". I just believe it's much easier when a person with experience gently (or harshly) taps you on the shoulder and says, uh, let me show you something. This applies to trading or any other business.

Bottom line is, if a person is interested and has someone to help him along, I believe that person is indeed fortunate. I would have gotten a lot more sleep and could have done a lot less reading if someone would have been around to teach me some things a few years ago.

dafrigginmanX10 · Apr 29, 2004

Quote from marketsurfer:

greetings,

hypothesis---- mentoring will only assist succesful traders, those who want to take their already good performance to the next level. if you are a losing trader, no amount of mentoring can help you consistently win. furthermore, those who seek the typical mentor who teaches basic chart reading, psych, etc. are setting themselves up to fail--- although somewhat inately dubious in value-- this material can only be self taught.

top traders who seek mentors do not seek the help of the bottom feeders who troll for lost souls, selling broken dreams to the unsophisticated. rather, they seek proven, highly educated experts in sometimes esoteric fields ( not related to trading ) to guide them to the next level of world class performance.

A CHALLENGE---- can you find me one example of someone who rose to the top of the trading profession after being a losing traders by paying a mentor who overtly advertises in trading magazines , the web or direct mail ?? try to prove the above hypothesis wrong.

surfer

isnt this a lot like saying if you are a losing chess player no amount of tutoring will assist you??

of course it will help DUH

... this is a stupid hypothesis and obviously false on its face :eek:

BSAM · Apr 29, 2004

Quote from dafrigginmanX10:

isnt this a lot like saying if you are a losing chess player no amount of tutoring will assist you??

of course it will help DUH

... this is a stupid hypothesis and obviously false on its face :eek:

Ouch! Why so harsh, dafrig? I may not agree with him either, but I don't doubt his sincerity / intelligence.

bali_survivor · Apr 29, 2004

Quote from BSAM:

Exactly. That's why I said most people have a bit of a lazy streak that holds them back. I had just a weeeeeeeeee bit more in mind than just showing up.

Been a whale of a journey for me. But, I finally figured out a few things. Would have been FAR easier if someone would have been there to tell me some things at the beginning. I'm pretty much self-taught, as I presume many are. Not trying to boast at all. In fact, I'd say it probably took me longer than most. Things that seem soooo hard, become crystal clear when one finally has those "aha moments". I just believe it's much easier when a person with experience gently (or harshly) taps you on the shoulder and says, uh, let me show you something. This applies to trading or any other business.

Bottom line is, if a person is interested and has someone to help him along, I believe that person is indeed fortunate. I would have gotten a lot more sleep and could have done a lot less reading if someone would have been around to teach me some things a few years ago.

How true!

Many years ago I worked at a polytechnic and the tutors were complaining that since the introduction of computers and calculators kids can no longer do simple maths and that the quality of their essays has gone backwards in leaps. They focus on fancy layout and not on contents. (sounds familiar)

The other item that appeared was: only when something was complex then it should work, something simple was (supposedly) no good.

The word that often came to mind was "sophisticated" (many people use it in the wrong context, one should look up its meaning in a dictionary).

In line with this I do think that there will be more and more a place for those who are able to apply themselves since the schools these days reward the tutors by the grading that the students give to the tutor. Meaning the tutor who gives the students the least homework and the easiest assignments gets the highest ranking (and hence pay). The net result is students don't learn to apply (think) themselves.

In todays society they seem to expect that it will be all provided to them on a platter: knowledge, job, welfare, security etc.

Studies have shown that there is no correlation between the rise of the PC, the internet and the percentage of succesful traders.

So, depending on how you look at it, there is still hope for the professional trader who works without help of others.

Peace

marketsurfer · Apr 29, 2004

Quote from dafrigginmanX10:

isnt this a lot like saying if you are a losing chess player no amount of tutoring will assist you??

of course it will help DUH

... this is a stupid hypothesis and obviously false on its face :eek:

no, its like saying if you are a losing chess player without the ability to concieve multiple layers of potential moves, NO amount of mentoring will enable you reach grandmaster status. i am still looking for an example on ONE person who achieved great success in trading and attributes same to an overt marketer of mentoring.

surfer

uptik2000 · Apr 29, 2004

It;s funny that surf started this thread today. I agree, the maket will give you exactly what you want from it.

This is a part of conversation from today's chat log:

PuffyGums (Apr 29, 2004 2:09:36 PM)
nitro you cant ask those questions. What are you trying to do? Ask someone to give away their precious edge.

resinate (Apr 29, 2004 2:09:45 PM)
:eek:

pdcomm (Apr 29, 2004 2:09:52 PM)
lol

resinate (Apr 29, 2004 2:10:03 PM)
lol

nitro (Apr 29, 2004 2:10:04 PM)
no

uptik2000 (Apr 29, 2004 2:10:07 PM)
doesn't matter if i posted my exact rules...very few have he discipline to follow and execute

uptik2000 (Apr 29, 2004 2:10:12 PM)
the

nitro (Apr 29, 2004 2:10:14 PM)
yes

nitro (Apr 29, 2004 2:10:42 PM)
I am aware of all these scans gums

uptik2000 (Apr 29, 2004 2:10:44 PM)
when the turtles were around..some made millions ..some failed...

nitro (Apr 29, 2004 2:10:46 PM)
they are meaningless to me

resinate (Apr 29, 2004 2:10:54 PM)
nyse breadth -1072

nitro (Apr 29, 2004 2:11:01 PM)
those are as old as the caves

uptik2000 (Apr 29, 2004 2:11:11 PM)
the rules were what they were..some followed..some did not

And I think that might be what Surf is saying.
Just like the early Turtles. You can give 100 people the same rules for a system. Some people will out perform and some will fail. And thats because that is what they are.

Trade well.

marketsurfer · Apr 29, 2004

Quote from uptik2000:

It;s funny that surf started this thread today. I agree, the maket will give you exactly what you want from it.

This is a part of conversation from today's chat log:

PuffyGums (Apr 29, 2004 2:09:36 PM)
nitro you cant ask those questions. What are you trying to do? Ask someone to give away their precious edge.

resinate (Apr 29, 2004 2:09:45 PM)
:eek:

pdcomm (Apr 29, 2004 2:09:52 PM)
lol

resinate (Apr 29, 2004 2:10:03 PM)
lol

nitro (Apr 29, 2004 2:10:04 PM)
no

uptik2000 (Apr 29, 2004 2:10:07 PM)
doesn't matter if i posted my exact rules...very few have he discipline to follow and execute

uptik2000 (Apr 29, 2004 2:10:12 PM)
the

nitro (Apr 29, 2004 2:10:14 PM)
yes

nitro (Apr 29, 2004 2:10:42 PM)
I am aware of all these scans gums

uptik2000 (Apr 29, 2004 2:10:44 PM)
when the turtles were around..some made millions ..some failed...

nitro (Apr 29, 2004 2:10:46 PM)
they are meaningless to me

resinate (Apr 29, 2004 2:10:54 PM)
nyse breadth -1072

nitro (Apr 29, 2004 2:11:01 PM)
those are as old as the caves

uptik2000 (Apr 29, 2004 2:11:11 PM)
the rules were what they were..some followed..some did not

And I think that might be what Surf is saying.
Just like the early Turtles. You can give 100 people the same rules for a system. Some people will out perform and some will fail. And thats because that is what they are.

Trade well.

hey uptik,
thanks for the post ! yes, that is exactly what i am saying, however i would ad to your statement--the market will give you exactly what you want, if you have the potential within you .

take care,
surf