mentor or system
- Thread starter Lee-me
- Start date
Actually yes. Who taught Einstein the theory of relativity?I'm not saying you're wrong... but I just don't follow. HE cannot design a rocket, but after YOU learn from HIM, you WILL be able to design a rocket???.
And by the way, I don't think anyone gave William O'Neil, or trained him, his trading method.I'm not saying you're wrong... but I just don't follow. HE cannot design a rocket, but after YOU learn from HIM, you WILL be able to design a rocket???.
And how would the claimed mentor know what good principles are of trading? And why has he not successfully employed them himself? And why would you trust him being good if he could not even be good to his own account. Too many open ended questions to waste time and money on. Go with your pick. For me the only route is self learning or to work from childhood to get competitive and get into a great uni and land at an institutional trading desk. Nothing else. No shortcuts.
Your example: You need to learn math to be a rocket scientist. A good math teacher teaches math, he is not a rocket scientist.
Therefore, you need to learn the basics of trading (risk management, etc.) to be a good trader. A good trading coach, as long as he teaches all of the good basic principles of trading, need not be a good trader?
But this is what I am saying. From my perspective, you are making the same point that I am.
West Texas A&M University writes that...
There is no record of Einstein flunking or ever getting low marks in math. Albert Einstein was an all-around good student with exceptional grades in math and science, according to the biography written by Albrecht Folsing. The statement that Einstein was a poor student is pure myth.
However, according to MacTutor...
Following the failing of the entrance exam to the ETH, Einstein attended secondary school at Aarau planning to use this route to enter the ETH in Zürich.
(Passing the examination would have allowed him to study for a diploma as an electrical engineer at the Eidgenössische Technische Hochschule in Zürich.)
And yet...
"Einstein contributed more than any other scientist to the modern vision of physical reality. His special and general theories of relativity are still regarded as the most satisfactory model of the large-scale universe that we have."
In Einstein's own words, in an essay written at Aarau:
If I were to have the good fortune to pass my examinations, I would go to Zürich. I would stay there for four years in order to study mathematics and physics. I imagine myself becoming a teacher in those branches of the natural sciences, choosing the theoretical part of them. Here are the reasons which lead me to this plan. Above all, it is my disposition for abstract and mathematical thought, and my lack of imagination and practical ability.
He eventually succeeded with his plan, graduating in 1900 as a teacher of mathematics and physics. He then earned a doctorate from the University of Zürich in 1905 for a thesis On a new determination of molecular dimensions.
Einstein returned to Germany in 1914 and accepted a research position in the Prussian Academy of Sciences together with a chair (but no teaching duties) at the University of Berlin.
So then, it was research that resulted in Einstein's putting forth a model of the universe that others would then rely on.
Similarly, according to investopedia, William O'Neill worked as a stockbroker (not a student) at Hayden, Stone, & Company in Los Angeles. He developed the first computerized securities database at William O'Neil Co. Inc., which he founded in 1963. He created the CAN SLIM growth investment strategy.
In my eyes, both Einstein and O'Neill are examples of how "there's more to it than that." O'Neil got actual real-world experience in the field, not just academic instruction, and then did his own research. Einstein had a disposition for abstract and theoretical thought. In other words, he did not merely operate on what he learned in school. He did his own research.
Your examples only reinforce my personal belief that it will typically take more than simply "learning the basics" for most folks to excell in most fields. Even for little old me, who most certainly does NOT regard himself in the same light as Einstein or O'Neill, it was by doing my own research that I was led to what I "claim" to be a profitable Forex trading system, which I take the liberty to call Numerical Price Prediction.
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I actually agree with you sir.
I don't have mentors excepts those of you gave me some coaching on ET. I never bought into any trading courses or systems either. Did read lots of trading and investing books.
Actually the best way to learn is to ask questions on ET. Those answers you will receive here are priceless. They helped me developed an option trading method, were what turned my option trades from early losses in 2013 to profits after 2014.
And lots of you have been extremely helpful in your comments on my day trading threads, allowing me to make critical adjustment in my approach and perhaps will make my day trades journey another success.
There are two parts to any successful trading, first one need to learn the basics, e.g. basic risk management, the mechanics. What comes next is to develop your own method. It has to fit your personality and background.
Perhaps a mentor or a course can help cut down the time to learn all of the basics. For the second part, there is no short cut, you have to do it on your own.
Best regards,
Thanks for taking the time to write your long and thoughtful response. It shows the type of person you are and you have my respect.
Can't argue with your responses. As for my own view, read my answers to @M.W.'s post.
Regards,
To reap good value from a trading mentor, your trading skills should be at least at a level where you can recognise yourself whether or not the mentor is any good.
It’s a very long process to learn how to trade, and I think that traders who are not able to at least breakeven are generally most likely going to be projecting their issues onto the mentor and wasting their money.
Expecting from a mentor to teach you how to trade can be bit unrealistic as there are many variables outside of the mentor’s control / influence.
However, I strongly believe that (the right) mentors can be very useful to help with finetuning for intermediate to advanced traders. (there are many self-appointed guru “mentors” eager to grab money from naïve / desperate people, so be very careful)
Regarding systems, if the person creates (or buys) a system without understating how the market actually works, then the (computerised) system most likely will eventually stop working. This is why computer programmers can come up with what initially seems like a good system, but once the market changes their system stops working.
On the other hand, experienced trader who knows from experience how the market works will be able to create more robust trading system even with just basic coding skills, plus will know how to finetune it to the changing market conditions because he’ll have developed the trading logic – something that computer back-testing traders do not have (and are not even aware of it).
Those reviewing trading product sites are often manipulated by desperate marketers getting people to write fake reviews.
The bottom line is that there are no shortcuts and no easy / quick solutions, that's the reality.
I think for the vast majority of individuals, if not every one of us, this statement holds a great deal of truth.
I don't feel like I learned a lot from ET, but I didn't come to this forum asking questions. I arrived with my own ideas. As a result, I got a lot of flack from a good number of contributors here. However, though I usually didn't find this very helpful, it DID require me to examine my own beliefs, and to verify for myself, if no one else, that my suppositions relied on sound reasoning, or at least what seemed like logical/rational hypotheses to me personally.
And when I could not be swayed from the direction in which I was headed, it served as evidence that I had confidence in my points of view, and that this courage of my convictions might indeed be a sign that there was enough there to support my decisions and that I should therefore continue to press on.
Not only that, defending my views forced me to flesh out my ideas in a manner that resulted in greater clarity than I might have otherwise developed that I could then apply to what I was doing, similar to my interactions with ironchef in this thread, and in that sense, EliteTrader has indeed been of significant value (even with all the trolls I have since put on ignore).
