Mega doses of vitamin C and my 35 years of experience

[Pekelo]

WTF??

That's a common side effect of mega doses greater than ~ 10 grams in twenty four hours. It seems harmless and is preferable to having your nose drip for three days and the mild sore throat

So I should have diarrhea for 4-6 months (if not for a whole year) during the winter just to guard off 1 cold?? That is a terrible pain/reward ratio....

Not to mention I wasn't even megadosing, I forgot how much I took but I bet it wasn't more than 1 g and I pooped like 4 times just in the morning. You also have to add the toilette paper cost!

To be honest I think it was the fish oil+vitamin C combo (just try it), but still. I had to give up one and I chose vitamin C...

I mentioned this earlier but I take Kelp during the winter and it helped me against sore throat. No side effects...

 

[Pekelo]

Now going back to Pauling, science unfortunatelly doesn't back him up:

https://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/pauling.html

"Another important study was reported in 1975 by scientists at the National Institutes of Health who compared vitamin C pills with a placebo before and during colds. Although the experiment was supposed to be double-blind, half the subjects were able to guess which pill they were getting. When the results were tabulated with all subjects lumped together, the vitamin group reported fewer colds per person over a nine-month period. But among the half who hadn't guessed which pill they had been taking, no difference in the incidence or severity was found [10]. This illustrates how people who think they are doing something effective (such as taking a vitamin) can report a favorable result even when none exists."

Also, just because he lived long that doesn't back him up either. It is quite possible he would have lived just as long without taking a bunch of Vitamin C. Check out Mormons, they have the highest longevity as a group in the USA and they are not mega dosing of anything. Except religious missbeliefs...

Leading a moderate lifestyle should take anyone into mid-80s, not counting for a major disease or accident. And do you really want to push 100???

 

[piezoe]

So I should have diarrhea for 4-6 months (if not for a whole year) during the winter just to guard off 1 cold?? That is a terrible pain/reward ratio....

No, a gram or two with meals won't have any bad side effects (most people). You just take a mega dose at the first sign of of a Rhino virus infection, say 16-20 grams spread out over 24 hours, and then you might experience a little mild diarrhea for 12 hours or so. But it is mild, and considering that within 24 hours, or less, your cold will be gone it's a good trade-off.

 

[Pekelo]

His anti-cancer claims were also BS. And what is a little conflict of interest between friends?:

"The Linus Pauling Institute of Science and Medicine was founded in 1973 and operated under that name until 1995 [20]. The institute was dedicated to "orthomolecular medicine." For many years, its largest corporate donor was Hoffmann-La Roche, the pharmaceutical giant that produces most of the world's vitamin C. "

Here is the real sad part:

"In 1999, Robinson commented:

The results of these experiments caused an argument between Linus and me, which ended our 16-year period of work together. He was not willing to accept the experimentally proved fact that vitamin C in ordinary doses accelerated the growth rate of squamous cell carcinoma in these mice."

 

[Pekelo]

You just take a mega dose at the first sign of of a Rhino virus infection,

Here is my own cold/sore throat cure: Gargling with salty water, then later on washing it down with a little liquor with honey in it. The salty water is nasty, but the liquor part (I prefer meade like Bunratty) compensates for it...

 

[piezoe]

Now going back to Pauling, science unfortunatelly doesn't back him up:

https://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/pauling.html

"Another important study was reported in 1975 by scientists at the National Institutes of Health who compared vitamin C pills with a placebo before and during colds. Although the experiment was supposed to be double-blind, half the subjects were able to guess which pill they were getting. When the results were tabulated with all subjects lumped together, the vitamin group reported fewer colds per person over a nine-month period. But among the half who hadn't guessed which pill they had been taking, no difference in the incidence or severity was found [10]. This illustrates how people who think they are doing something effective (such as taking a vitamin) can report a favorable result even when none exists."

Also, just because he lived long that doesn't back him up either. It is quite possible he would have lived just as long without taking a bunch of Vitamin C. Check out Mormons, they have the highest longevity as a group in the USA and they are not mega dosing of anything. Except religious missbeliefs...

Leading a moderate lifestyle should take anyone into mid-80s, not counting for a major disease or accident. And do you really want to push 100???

Of course you are right, there is no value in anecdote (well very little at least). But again, check the dosage in the NIH study and other U.S. studies. You'll will find it is far lower than in the Pauling study done in England. Pauling's data is quite convincing. He certainly wasn't a quack. It never made sense to him that the minimum level of vitamins to prevent disease, what you read on the back of vitamin bottles, would necessarily be the same as the optimum level. And it shouldn't make sense to anyone. He was acutely aware that some vitamins had had narrower optimum ranges than others and that going above those levels for certain vitamins could be dangerous.

Thousands of cases of spinal bifida and scoliosis would have been prevented had the medical profession listened to him, because he knew that the required level for folic acid had been set way too low for a ridiculous reason. (higher doses interfere with diagnosis of a rare brain disorder.) But those low levels were at the expense of less than optimum health for an entire country! He did not know that the recommended level could result in spinal bifida, but he did know that the required level was set far too low, and that folic acid in the typical U.S. diet was way too low for good health. And he said so.

The quackwatch article was interesting. A few questionable statements apparently based on third hand information and some apparent inaccuracies. As an example, the article states that reportedly pauling took 12 grams per day of Vitamin C. It's well known that his standard practice was to take 2 grams with each meal (6 grams daily). At this point I don't think there is any question that large doses, 16-20 grams of vitamin C in 24 hours taken at the onset of symptoms cures Rhino virus infections. But the best test is to try it yourself and see.

 

[Pekelo]

Pauling's data is quite convincing.

Specially those that he destroyed, like the above quoted Robinson fellow's data, who got sued by Pauling for being scientific. If you read the article Pauling promptly lost the suit and had to pay half a million to Robinson for label.

Pauling reminds me of Newton. Just because you are great in something, that doesn't mean that you can't believe in alchemy or invest in tulip bulbs...

Later in life Pauling also supported quacks. It is all in the article.

Modern science does NOT back up Pauling's claims on either Vit. C's cold fighting abilites or anti-cancer properties. End of story...

 

[TreeFrogTrader]

Thousands of cases of spinal bifida and scoliosis would have been prevented had the medical profession listened to him, because he knew that the required level for folic acid had been set way too low for a ridiculous reason. (higher doses interfere with diagnosis of a rare brain disorder.) .

Well, the other ridiculous reason why the medical establishment resisted folic acid supplementation was because folic acid masks testing for B12 so that if a person was supplementing with folic acid but had a b12 deficiency then it could go undetected. Oy!

After a few decades of using that as an excuse, I think some rocket surgeons came up with the idea that you could just add b12 in with the folic acid supplement. Now, things seem to have come full circle where the establishment is fighting for more folic acid to be added to processed foods.

Pauling was a bold thinker and making big conjectures can sometimes appear reckless but it is also one of the major ways that science moves forward as things are proven or disproven. Just daring to "look there" is often the beginning of great things. I don't think the Vitamin C studies are all that impressive but there is no doubt that Pauling and Abraham Hoffer/Hoffman whaterver (with his naicin schizophrenia studies) launched the whole field orthomolecular medicine and that has been a good thing.

 

[piezoe]

Here is my own cold/sore throat cure: Gargling with salty water, then later on washing it down with a little liquor with honey in it. The salty water is nasty, but the liquor part (I prefer meade like Bunratty) compensates for it...

That's a dandy idea I'm going to try it, the next time I have sore throat. I might try just the second part tonight.

 

[piezoe]

Specially those that he destroyed, like the above quoted Robinson fellow's data, who got sued by Pauling for being scientific. If you read the article Pauling promptly lost the suit and had to pay half a million to Robinson for label.

Pauling reminds me of Newton. Just because you are great in something, that doesn't mean that you can't believe in alchemy or invest in tulip bulbs...

Later in life Pauling also supported quacks. It is all in the article.

Modern science does NOT back up Pauling's claims on either Vit. C's cold fighting abilites or anti-cancer properties. End of story...

Pauling wasn't perfect, he was just brilliant and extremely articulate. It seems to be hard to find all three attributes in he same person. Perfection seems to be the toughest to find. I never heard Pauling say that ascorbic acid in mega doses would cure the flu, but perhaps he did say that later. It does take care of Rhino virus however. But you've got to take a lot spread out over at least 24 hours. A couple of Vitamin C tablets won't do it. On this point there is very convincing scientific evidence. None of the U.S. studies used the required dosage. Why didn't the U.S. investigators simply repeat the British study? Wouldn't that have been the thing to do if you wanted to know if the prior results were repeatable. Maybe that was not the goal of the U.S. studies.

It is ridiculous, however, to do a study using dosage 1 and obtain negative results, and then claim another study done a dosage 2, where dosage 2 >> dosage 1, must be wrong. This is what happened; of course it's ridiculous. Pauling stepped on the toes of the U.S. medical profession, and quite naturally, they didn't appreciate it. We should remind ourselves that twenty years after some very bright Australians discovered that almost all ulcers are caused by H. pylori, some U.S. physicians were still till telling their patients that ulcers were caused by stress, and too much hydrochloric acid output.