Meeting with local prop firm. Good questions to ask?

[Andrea Wylan]

Yes you did, but you keep encouraging people to use mental, yoga, and relaxation to follow "the plan" as if they already have a viable one. Better to be upfront about the statistical fact that 99% of them will never have a plan that's viable in the retail or prop arena.

It takes a certain (rare) type of person to eventually see what most don't. The rest can pray, exercise, float with their legs crossed, and it won't change that reality.

I "keep encouraging" this because the MINDSET IS the reason most of the 90-95% of failed traders fail. Yes, of course you need a strategy, plan, etc. and many traders neglect that. But it isn't enough, most of the time.

 

[Andrea Wylan]

It is a must, but discipline is very common, and by itself ineffective to prosper. The proper knowledge and method is what is needed and most won't grasp it.

I see this in the opposite way--that proper knowledge and method is definitely needed, but what most won't grasp, and is by far more difficult, is mindset. This shows up, for example, when a trader keeps doing the same dumb thing over and over and can't seem to stop, even though they know the behavior is sabotaging them--like chasing trades to get in.

 

[Andrea Wylan]

I'm optimistic, but realistic. The numbers don't lie, but I don't discourage the long shot. Life is full of trials and errors. I'd rather die a gambler than a quitter.

Honestly, this whole 99% fail, 90% fail numbers being thrown out there seems like its a loose number not backed by research. I've done my own study on this issue and found that its more closer to a 65-75% fail rate. If 99% of all traders fail then the 1% winning is who exactly? Care to elaborate?

Just another thought. If you are aware of the risk, are studying and using a simulator to trade (which many refuse to do), are being careful, creating your plan, and hopefully sticking to it, etc. then your odds are already (significantly) higher than the 1%. Not sure how much higher, but definitely so.

 

[Occam]

Honestly, this whole 99% fail, 90% fail numbers being thrown out there seems like its a loose number not backed by research. I've done my own study on this issue and found that its more closer to a 65-75% fail rate. If 99% of all traders fail then the 1% winning is who exactly? Care to elaborate?

IMO a big source of the debate surrounding trader "failure rate" stats is that they depend on the pool you're drawing from.

"Bucket shop/retail forex" or "binary options" firms are among the worst, with failure rates in at least some firms getting close to 100% -- the firm may even have an incentive for the client to fail, as most such firms take the opposite side of every client trade.

At the other end of the spectrum, the "failure rate" for "traders" at Virtu or Optiver or Renaissance Technologies is probably quite low, at least in terms of running losses. Here traders are paid a salary and are subject to a rigorous selection process before they're hired.

Prop shops that require deposits will probably fall somewhere in the middle, both in terms of failure rates and alignment of incentives, but exactly where depends on the firm.

 

[smallStops]

... I have 4 months paid leave

... But I'm willing to take the risk. This is my dream.

... I played poker for a living.

... the effects of winning big.

... own business during and after college. I was successful ...

Cheers

Can you tell more about the effects you've noticed regarding the effects of winning big ? and if you had weblinks , that would be very helpful.


Now, for the rest, I am just giving AN OPINION.

What is really your end goal ?
Why is trading your dream ?

The reason is not to confuse the "winning a war" with winning a battle.

If your goal and end dream are related solely to checking your $$$$ accumulated,
then, one thing you could do of your 4 months, is to fix a $$$ target and do poker for 4 months.
You can ask the good( you said) prop to report in one year time, as they will still be there in one year time.
Also, you could take the one year to arrange with your job for a full year paid sabbatical.
Now, if you can not reach your poker $$$ objectives: why, as you paid your accumulated $$$ with poker.

If your real goal and end dream are status/pride/prestige , then things are different

If your goal and end dream is to be a trader : ask what are the real reasons.
"High"/thrill" when you were profitable? then what is behind the manifestation of this
"high"/"thrill".

I don't know if I have explained clearly this one opinion.

 

[profitlocker]

Just another thought. If you are aware of the risk, are studying and using a simulator to trade (which many refuse to do)

In theory the simulator sounds good, but it in reality, a trading plan is hard to structure without real trades. It's the nature of the beast.

 

[profitlocker]

I see this in the opposite way--that proper knowledge and method is definitely needed, but what most won't grasp, and is by far more difficult, is mindset

That's funny because I need major psychiatric help, as I'm far from normal, but what I don't need is help with my trading. I know exactly what to do, and when.

 

[profitlocker]

I see this in the opposite way--that proper knowledge and method is definitely needed, but what most won't grasp, and is by far more difficult, is mindset.

You're living in fantasyland if you think grasping a method is easier than controlling your mind. Alpha is super hard to generate in modern financial markets. A statistical edge is gold.

 

[elliots11]

You're living in fantasyland if you think grasping a method is easier than controlling your mind. Alpha is super hard to generate in modern financial markets. A statistical edge is gold.

Really? And what happened to long term capital and other hedge funds? Ever read "Fooled by Randomness" or "The Black Swan"? A statistical edge may be fantasyland itself.

 

[Andrea Wylan]

You're living in fantasyland if you think grasping a method is easier than controlling your mind. Alpha is super hard to generate in modern financial markets. A statistical edge is gold.

Profitlocker--I guess it depends on the trader. In my experience talking with traders and seeing where people struggle, the mind seems to be the hardest thing to overcome. I think some of this is because we don't even know what is going on inside our minds. The unconscious controls a lot of what we do and believe without our awareness.

I have seen traders who have struggled for YEARS with a trading behavior they couldn't fix, and have no idea why or how to fix it.