Meet the COVID Delta variant

[jem]

If you agree that natural herd immunity is possible then fine.

But... note your cheap shot strawman argument... which sure made you seem hostile to my point about the existence of herd immunity... which you could not miss.


usequer said:

"But I understand you to be suggesting that since the human race wasn't completely wiped out, vaccines aren't necessary. We agree to disagree."

Ah ... @jem ... I wasn't one of the ones arguing with you about this, so I have no dog in this fight ... but ... as I recall, they argued against your application of herd immunity; not the existence of herd immunity.

 

[gwb-trading]

Ah ... @jem ... I wasn't one of the ones arguing with you about this, so I have no dog in this fight ... but ... as I recall, they argued against your application of herd immunity; not the existence of herd immunity.

Jem --- has constantly pushed "natural herd immunity". The cost in terms of death and misery of achieving "natural herd immunity" is astronomically high as a toll on society. It also should be noted for non-insect borne diseases it is difficult to get the natural infection level in society beyond 50% much less approach the 70% level or greater needed for herd immunity. The only practical path to herd immunity is via vaccination.

 

[jem]

I don't know what the fuck is wrong with you people... with your stawman bullshit..

I never said this bullshit in my life..

"no need for vaccines and precautions because all we need is herd immunity. "
who the fuck said that... not me.


I kept arguing for the existence of herd immunity and you kept on introducing arguments which were not relevant to anything else. if you were not arguing against the existence of herd immunity why were you arguing with me?

No one here stated "there is no herd immunity" which shows you missed the point..it was your point that all we need is herd immunity


What do we do about all the thousands of people that die while waiting for this to kick in...

 

[jem]

then why do you keep denying the existence of herd immunity on thread after thread... if you simply think its too costly.

too costly is a different argument.

Jem --- has constantly pushed "natural herd immunity". The cost in terms of death and misery of achieving "natural herd immunity" is astronomically high as a toll on society. It also should be noted for non-insect borne diseases it is difficult to get the natural infection level in society beyond 50% much less approach the 70% level or greater needed for herd immunity. The only practical path to herd immunity is via vaccination.

 

[userque]

@jem , are you suggesting that humans can achieve herd immunity from covid without vaccines?

If so, how many deaths (%) do you think it would take to achieve herd immunity without vaccines?

And do you think the death toll would be a lot less if we achieve herd immunity along with using vaccines?

 

[jem]

Last month the minstry of health in India stated their periodic sero-survey of 20 regions in India showed India's people tested 67% positive positive for covid antibodies.

We know from science and experts that 20 to 40 percent of people exposed to Covid have very short term or or zero antibodies even though they were infected.

So... that means more than 67% (up to virtually 100 percent) of of Indians in some areas could have been infected by Delta. just last month.
(85% of their health care workers showed antibodies)

So you tell me... if say 90 percent of some areas in India were positive for antibodies..

could those areas have achieved herd immunity to delta?

2. this is what a chart of a high infectious virus would look like if you had natural herd immunity to it if 2/3 or more of you people were infected and developed immunity... at least temporarily.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/india/


With respect to deaths...

the better you are at isolating and protecting the high risk or providing medical care and/or giving vaccines to the high risk...the lower the deaths and damage to peoples lives.

@jem , are you suggesting that humans can achieve herd immunity from covid without vaccines?

If so, how many deaths (%) do you think it would take to achieve herd immunity without vaccines?

And do you think the death toll would be a lot less if we achieve herd immunity along with using vaccines?

 

[gwb-trading]

Last month the minstry of health in India stated their periodic sero-survey of 20 regions in India showed India's people tested 67% positive positive for covid antibodies.

We know from science and experts that 20 to 40 percent of people exposed to Covid have very short term or or zero antibodies even though they were infected.

So... that means more than 67% (up to virtually 100 percent) of of Indians in some areas could have been infected by Delta. just last month.
(85% of their health care workers showed antibodies)

So you tell me... if say 90 percent of some areas in India were positive for antibodies..

could those areas have achieved herd immunity to delta?

2. this is what a chart of a high infectious virus would look like if you had natural herd immunity to it if 2/3 or more of you people were infected and developed immunity... at least temporarily.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/india/

You are misrepresenting the tests of the 20 regions in India again.

 

[jem]

tell us why ... with a link... not your bullshit.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/antibodies-in-68-indians-101626804217418.html

Antibodies in 68% Indians
Roughly two out of three Indians may have some protection from Covid-19, government experts on Tuesday said, citing the latest sero survey findings that they described as a “ray of hope”, but added that a large part of the population is still vulnerable and future waves cannot be ruled out

You are misrepresenting the tests of the 20 regions in India again.

 

[gwb-trading]

@jem , are you suggesting that humans can achieve herd immunity from covid without vaccines?

If so, how many deaths (%) do you think it would take to achieve herd immunity without vaccines?

And do you think the death toll would be a lot less if we achieve herd immunity along with using vaccines?

Some diseases when you catch them naturally leave you with life-long anti-body immunity when you recover.

Unfortunately coronaviruses do not leave you with life-long antibody immunity when you recover -- otherwise we would all be immune to the common cold. The antibody immunity in humans wane within months for natural Covid infections --- in many cases not lasting six months. This problem is also seen with the current generation of Covid vaccines -- they wane & a booster is required (which was expected). One of the hurdles in the development of the next generation of coronavirus vaccines is how to overcome this waning immunity and make the vaccination permanent so not boosters are required each year.

 

[userque]

Last month the minstry of health in India state their periodic sero survey of 20 regions in India showed India's people tested 67% positive positive for covid antibodies.

We know from science and experts that 20 to 40 percent of exposed to Covid have very short term or or zero antibodies even though they were infected.

So... that means far more than 67% to 100 percent of of Indians in some areas could have been infected by Delta. just last month.

So you tell me... if say 90 percent of some areas in India were positive for antibodies..

could those areas have achieved herd immunity to delta?

2. this is what a chart of a high infectious virus would look like if you had natural herd immunity to it if 2/3 or more of you people were infected and developed immunity... at least temporarily.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/india/

Bruh, before we complicate the issue, I just wanted to know your answers to these simple questions:

@jem , are you suggesting that humans can achieve herd immunity from covid without vaccines?

If so, how many deaths (%) do you think it would take to achieve herd immunity without vaccines?

And do you think the death toll would be a lot less if we achieve herd immunity along with using vaccines?

I'll go first:

1. Yes, enough humans appear to be able to naturally survive COVID, and continue the race.

2. However, I believe there will be a 'high' number of deaths due to COVID, and also due to the unavailability of hospital resources for non-COVID patients.

3. I think using vaccines will result in a great, overall reduction in deaths, vs. relying on herd immunity alone.

Now, can you agree with my responses? If not, provide your answers to the same exact questions.