Meet the COVID Delta variant

[Tony Stark]

The studies are showing that 0.4% to 0.7% of people who had COVID previously get re-infected.

Do you know what the infection rate is for people vaccinated (not having been infected prior to taking the vaccine)?

The issue was recently in the news because basketball player Chris Paul tested positive after having been vaccinated I'm wondering how often that happens.

 

[gwb-trading]

One of the flies in the ointment that mucks up this argument a bit- for now anyway- is that people/commentators often forget that these are all just vaccines that have emergency/provisional approval.

So in effect, people are arguing that the heavy hand of government or corporations or public policy be used to force consequences on people who will not take a vaccine where even the government is not willing to give full approval.

I have taken the vaccine but it is more from a libertarian point of view where people do their own research and thinking and decide for themselves. So even though I decided to be vaccinated, I am still able to look over at others and see that it is not pretty when the government is getting heavy handed with people for not taking fully approved drugs/vaccines.

I may have missed a beat and one of the vaccines may have recently received full approval. If so, point that out. Not saying that changes an anti-vaxxers or personal choicers right to decide free from undue punishment, just that prior to the government even fully approving a vaccine it is out of order to get heavy handed with anyone.

I agree with waiting for full FDA approval before putting medical insurance consequences in place. Note that both Pfizer and Moderna have submitted all the necessary data for full FDA approval (it requires 6 months data post the Phase 3 trial). The approval is expected to come within the next three months for both.

 

[UsualName]

I linked one study in my previous post. It's more than one in a million.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33320052/

Here it is again. It has 8 citations and is relatively new which indicates that other scientists seem to believe what they have to say. Unfortunately, it's very clear you didn't read any of my post and immediately jumped to "you're just citing the same thing the antivaxxers cite". Please either purchase the paper, or through your university (if you're enrolled), use the library to view it. It's not non-sense, and if this continues to be shown in studies it virtually negates any real effect the current generation of vaccines actually have (this all assuming vaccine efficacy trials were actually controlled properly which itself is even up for debate). In this light the current generation of vaccines would not be vaccines, but rather ad-hoc prophylaxis. Useful, but does not stop the pandemic.

Of course, these things would've been caught in phase 3/4 trials but it seems like we've moved beyond those for this allegedly world-ending virus.

This is not new, it’s from February. What the dr is posing is that even vaccinated people will test positive on occasion and those who test positive theoretically can transmit virus. Ok. I concede that but that doesn’t mean anything. It’s still one in a million at this point. We have data showing counties with low vaccination rates having high rates of disease while counties with high vaccination rates have low rates of disease. This is because the vaccines work in preventing and reducing infection. Ninety-four percent still leaves 6%. It’s going to happen but that doesn’t mean the vaccines are not effective.

What you’re doing here is picking out the outliers and trying to make them into the main issue. Go somewhere else with that. The vaccines work. Don’t try spinning the science to fit a narrative you’ve developed to convince yourself not taking the vaccine is what’s best.

If you don’t want to take the vaccine then just don’t take it but you don’t have to make yourself look like a fool who cannot analyze data in the process.

 

[TreeFrogTrader]

I agree with waiting for full FDA approval before putting medical insurance consequences in place. Note that both Pfizer and Moderna have submitted all the necessary data for full FDA approval (it requires 6 months data post the Phase 3 trial). The approval is expected to come within the next three months for both.

Note that I did not argue that medical insurance consequences should be put in place. Only that if someone - such as the government or insurance companies want to make that case- it is too early to even try- and they should at least wait until that the little inconvenient factor that the vaccines do not have full approval before trying their luck.

 

[gwb-trading]

Do you know what the infection rate is for people vaccinated (not having been infected prior to taking the vaccine)?

The issue was recently in the news because basketball player Chris Paul tested positive after having been vaccinated I'm wondering how often that happens.

I do not know a final answer on this. It is going to vary greatly by vaccine. For the Chinese vaccines -- for example -- it is highly likely that you will get infected after taking the vaccine because they are worthless.

I expect firm finalized statistics on post vaccination infection will require pending studies to be completed. I will note that the U.S. has approximately 10,262 "break-through" cases among the full vaccinated (as of 4 weeks ago) according to the CDC out of 150 million fully vaccinated. The CDC says breakthrough cases are rare in the U.S.

 

[gwb-trading]

Note that I did not argue that medical insurance consequences should be put in place. Only that if someone - such as the government or insurance companies want to make that case- it is too early to even try- and they should at least wait until that the little inconvenient factor that the vaccines do not have full approval before trying their luck.

The reality is that I expect denying the payment for treatment will not be put into place in the U.S. -- the concept opens the door for denying paying for treatment for everything else that is possibly preventable (diabetes, etc.). We may see medical insurance companies raise the rates for unvaccinated people (like they do for smokers).

 

[UsualName]

I agree with waiting for full FDA approval before putting medical insurance consequences in place. Note that both Pfizer and Moderna have submitted all the necessary data for full FDA approval (it requires 6 months data post the Phase 3 trial). The approval is expected to come within the next three months for both.

I think a lot of the anti Vaxers will gravitate to the Novavax vaccine before this gets out of hand. The Novavax vaccine is a traditional vaccine many people have already had. The Hep B and whooping cough vaccines use the same technique and tens of millions of people have that vaccine and you get at your doctors office. At least that’s my hope. There is chance all of this has moved a lot of people to become stubborn on vaccines in general too.

 

[TreeFrogTrader]

The reality is that I expect denying the payment for treatment will not be put into place in the U.S. -- the concept opens the door for denying paying for treatment for everything else that is possibly preventable (diabetes, etc.). We may see medical insurance companies raise the rates for unvaccinated people (like they do for smokers).

Correct.

A guy has heart disease but does not want to take statins for high cholesterol. Statins have both supporters and severe critics "based on the science." We gonna deny them coverage because they dont want to take x,y,z. ? No.

 

[Frederick Foresight]

Covid Delta Variant...its a nasty booger.

It's microscopic and looks harmless but its extremely dangerous.

View attachment 261523

wrbtrader

I’m guessing the recipe book never made the bestseller list.

 

[BeautifulStranger]

Masks are provably useless. They stop spit droplets but do not stop the virus.

Masks have been worn by healthcare professionals dealing with infectious diseases since, what, the 1920s? The idea of PPE is to place a barrier(s) between the wearer and the virus to hopefully avoid being infected. Yes, virus particles are smaller than the pores of the barrier. However, due to static electricity, masks, particularly n95 masks, can attenuate viruses more effectively than it may otherwise appear. Further, I’ve read the threshold of infection by Covid is considered to be 1000 virus particles over a short period of time. In addition, consider that most viable virus particles are in droplets, which masks can provide a temporarily effective barrier to. You really don’t want to inhale a droplet containing millions of virus particles. Individual virus particles start breaking down immediately upon exposure in air, reducing their infection potential fairly frequently. Now imagine two people in a room together, one is contagious and other has not been exposed, both are wearing PPE. Does it not make sense to you the transmission potential of Covid in that room is less, especially if these people do not stay together for an extended period?

To sum up, the following elements, especially when combined together, will reduce the transmission of Covid, vaccinated or not:

1. Wear PPE properly whether feeling well or not, vaccinated or not.
2. Limit exposure to other people, especially in confined locations.
3. Change or decontaminate PPE at a reasonable frequency.
4. Take care in removing PPE and maintain awareness of where you place your hands (Wearing glasses or goggles helps keep you from touching your eyes, a common way of getting infected).
5. Frequently disinfect high use surfaces.
6. In high risk situations, or better yet, anytime leaving one’s home, wear gloves, preferably doubled gloves.

Just as people don’t innately know how to drive well or to use PPE properly, it is something that can be learned and is necessary in our current situation. We may not have asked for Covid, but it is here and we need to deal with it like adults.

By the way, I have little doubt the stated effectiveness of vaccines by our healthcare leadership are premeditated lies. There is no way for any vaccines to approach 100% effectiveness, especially against a virus with so many different strains. There is also no way to determine actual effectiveness of a vaccine in a short period of time, especially considering it is known that vaccines tend to be less effective on the elderly. Also, the statistics on vaccines prior to the Covid vaccines are much less impressive than 100%, suggesting that misinformation exists to encourage public adoption of vaccines that were created in record breaking time that probably bypassed certain safety protocols, at least to a degree. In fact, vaccinations might be dangerous in that a false confidence is created and other protective measures are not adhered to against a rapidly mutating pathogen.

In the end, we are responsible for maintaining our own health, whether other people chose to take questionable vaccines or not (Check current vaccine warning labels and which entities have approved the use of that particular vaccine). Proper use of PPE and other best practices can help keep us safe without taking on additional short and long term risks that vaccines may entail.