Mechanical versus discretionary swing trading

[Jim_Nasium]

Quote from dbphoenix:

If you're going to be swayed by the opinions of anonymous strangers rather than by your own research and testing, then, yes, you really ought to quit now and save yourself the time and money.

This isn't difficult, but you may have to unlearn quite a bit in order to make it work for you.

I treat everything I read on forums with a healthy dose of scepticism...even your posts = )

 

[Stockie]

I've traded using a spread betting account. Obviously the big problem is the spread. Even if swing / position trading, it can impact your trade management. I found I was reluctant to exit positions for the wrong reason: because of the initial high cost of entry. Switching to brokerage trading was a breath of fresh air.

I don't think spread betting is the route cause of your problem, dbphoenix has been addressing that, but it might be a factor?

In the interest of balance, this guy does OK spread betting: http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=255007 - he seems to be in and out of positions intraday.


- Anonymous Stranger

 

[Jim_Nasium]

Quote from Stockie:

I've traded using a spread betting account. Obviously the big problem is the spread. Even if swing / position trading, it can impact your trade management. I found I was reluctant to exit positions for the wrong reason: because of the initial high cost of entry. Switching to brokerage trading was a breath of fresh air.

I don't think spread betting is the route cause of your problem, dbphoenix has been addressing that, but it might be a factor?

In the interest of balance, this guy does OK spread betting: http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=255007 - he seems to be in and out of positions intraday.


- Anonymous Stranger

Hey anonymous stranger,

Thanks for the link I will check it out.

Yeah I'm sure the spreadbetting is detrimental to performance, but at this stage it's not really about making money. My win rate vs the size of wins is too low even taking spreads into consideration. If I could breakeven or turn a small profit on the spreadbetting it would be time to use a proper broker.

 

[Jim_Nasium]

Quote from bighog:

Wise decision!

Ask phoenix why MA is no good except they are late. Everything we see on a chart is LATE, but indeed we glean a perspective from what was to visualize what might come next.

Without receiving LATE information we would be totally in the dark.

If MA etc are LATE and useless, ask him what is useable information besides osmosis.

I'm keeping an open mind on the subject

 

[dbphoenix]

Quote from Jim_Nasium:

I treat everything I read on forums with a healthy dose of scepticism...even your posts = )

Especially my posts, as they will likely be considerably different from what you've heard/read.

As to the spread thing, there are certain aspects of spread which will become clear to you if and when you begin testing your suppositions and assumptions. One of these -- the far greater risks involved in placing tight stops -- must already have become apparent.

As to the remark about "everything" being late on a chart or a T&S display, yes. The choice is whether you prefer a delay of seconds or a delay of days/weeks. The far more important consideration is whether or not you've clearly defined exactly what it is you want to see and whether or not you're seeing it. You've made a start toward defining what you want to see, but it isn't delivering. Therefore you have to back up and experiment further. If you enjoy that process, you're good. If not . . .

 

[wrbtrader]

Quote from Jim_Nasium:

Sure he could fire up his trading platform on our lunch break if it's web based and show me his open positions, some may be winning, some may be losing, I may even get a peek at his account balance, but I doubt he is going to talk me through a live trade in an office environment where he could attract unwanted attention. I know I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that.

How long until my posts bypass the moderation queue? Is it not obvious by now I'm not a spammer or a trying to sell something? It's very inconvenient.

I was under the impression you and your colleague were not swing trading at the work office. Instead, I assumed your discretionary colleague was trading prior to arriving to work or trading after work.

I'm not a fan of folks trading from work unless such is done on free time (e.g. lunch) or the trader is the boss/owner and it doesn't impact the performance of their employees.

Also, you didn't mention how long (e.g. months or years) you've been at it as a mechanical trader/automated trading. If its been years, the mechanical trading obviously isn't for you and you need to sit down and consider something alternative (e.g. different trading style, different markets) instead of continuing hammering at something that's not working.

Anyways, knowing very little about your trading environment and background...I'll stop here except to say that there's a lot more to consistent profits than just trade signals regardless if you're a mechanical trader, automated trader or discretionary trader. Simply, there's a possibility you may have a good trade method but missing the other pieces of the puzzle.

 

[bighog]

Here's a thought:

I would suggest Nodoji start a paid Skype room with cameras for a lot of new traders. That could be tied in with ET and she would control it...........I bet you would get value from her.

(nod wants to shoot me, LOL ) I would not join though, I would tell idioys to stuff it.hahahahah

 

[Jim_Nasium]

Quote from bighog:

Here's a thought:

I would suggest Nodoji start a paid Skype room with cameras for a lot of new traders. That could be tied in with ET and she would control it...........I bet you would get value from her.

(nod wants to shoot me, LOL ) I would not join though, I would tell idioys to stuff it.hahahahah

Did you mean to post this in this thread?

 

[dbphoenix]

Quote from wrbtrader:

I was under the impression you and your colleague were not swing trading at the work office. Instead, I assumed your discretionary colleague was trading prior to arriving to work or trading after work.

I'm not a fan of folks trading from work unless such is done on free time (e.g. lunch) or the trader is the boss/owner and it doesn't impact the performance of their employees.

Also, you didn't mention how long (e.g. months or years) you've been at it as a mechanical trader/automated trading. If its been years, the mechanical trading obviously isn't for you and you need to sit down and consider something alternative (e.g. different trading style, different markets) instead of continuing hammering at something that's not working.

Anyways, knowing very little about your trading environment and background...I'll stop here except to say that there's a lot more to consistent profits than just trade signals regardless if you're a mechanical trader, automated trader or discretionary trader. Simply, there's a possibility your may have a good trade method but missing the other pieces of the puzzle.

FWIW, I agree with all of this. If you're trying to trade at work, during work, you may as well put all of your money in a big pile and set it on fire. That's about all the enjoyment you'll be able to expect.

OTOH, there is no reason whatsoever why you can't develop a trading plan that is based on EOD swing-trading. By doing so, whatever spread you may be faced with will be pretty much irrelevant.

 

[Jim_Nasium]

Quote from dbphoenix:

FWIW, I agree with all of this. If you're trying to trade at work, during work, you may as well put all of your money in a big pile and set it on fire. That's about all the enjoyment you'll be able to expect.

OTOH, there is no reason whatsoever why you can't develop a trading plan that is based on EOD swing-trading. By doing so, whatever spread you may be faced with will be pretty much irrelevant.

I don't want to get too sidetracked, but no I don't even look at charts at work, neither does my colleague as far as I know, that's my point. I don't know the dude well enough to suggest he invites me round to his home to show me how he trades. Might be an English thing (although he's actually one of you guys, i.e. USAmerican)